UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Pulled the intake on my 59 this afternoon and found that indeed oil is being sucked up into the runners. There was a puddle of oil in the plenums runners, the lower one having the most. Also, you could run your fingers inside the runners and get oil on them. When I removed the intake, oil was present on the lower half of the gasket on the sides of all 4 intake openings on both the front and back sides of the gasket on both gaskets. Oil is also visible on the valves. I used a straight-edge to check for intake warpage, but found none. The heads, however, have a small amount across the intake face. The heat cross-over passage on both heads is swollen outward by a small amount, unsure just how much as my feeler gauge starts a .010 and goes up. It would not come close to sliding under the straightedge, so I know it's a minimal amount. I'm going to use Permatex high tack to glue the gasket to the head and let it set over Fri night with the intake weighting it down and then do the same to the top side of the gasket Sat morning and install and torque down the intake and then see what happens. If anyone has any better suggestions for sealing, they are most welcome. Thanks All for their I nputs.
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Al------
All I can tell you is this: what you've found after removing the manifold is EXACTLY what I found each time I removed the manifold on the engine I described previously and I removed the manifold probably 20 times in the course of the numerous fixes I tried.
I hate to tell you this but I tried fixes much like you've suggested and they did nothing for my problem nor, as I described previously, did anything else I tried.In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Joe, I read your articles on your trials with that engine. I will probably end up with the same situation with mine. I was told to use the hi-tack as a possible solution, so I thought I'd give it a try. I figured it can't hurt, except a lot of time. I'm wondering, too if, in your engine, it could be a block machining problem from the factory. Thanks for the reply and I'll try to post my results early next week, if known at that time. One question-- If using the high tack to glue the gasket to the heads and intake, do you still use a silicone sealant at the water passages, Or is the high-tack good enough?? Thanks! AlComment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Al------
In my case, I feel very confident that the genesis of the problem had to do with the replacement GM short block assembly that was the foundation of that engine. I think it had to do with either the angle of the block deck being off-spec or the block deck height being off-spec. Either of these would cause the angularity between the intake manifold and cylinder head to be off. These are hard to measure but I'm going to try to do it when I "autopsy" the engine.
Obviously, in your case the block is something you've used before without this problem so it's unlikely the genesis of your problem is the block (unless your block deck has been machined). However, I believe the same sort of problem can be caused by machining of the cylinder head deck or the intake manifold. Either of these can upset the "geometry" of the head-to-intake manifold fitment.
If you are using embossed type intake gaskets, I think the "high tack" will be sufficient around the water ports. However, if you wish, you could use the RTV around the ports and the "high tack" elsewhere. This would not be too difficult.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Joe, the block still has the broach marks and the #s so I don't think it would have been decked. The heads I think have been at least once, unsure if more than due to age of car. The intake I bought at a flea market last year. It doesn't appear to have been,but ? When I bought the car, back in 90, the engine wasn't in it. Instead, it had a 64 327 installed. I don't remember exactly why it was removed (I think something due to drivability of the FI engine and no one who could reliably work on the FI unit back in the early 60s. The original owner had it replaced. Both he and the man I purchased it from have since passed, so it will remain a guess. Wish me a lot of good luck on this Thanks!Comment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Al/Joe,
Joe, I don't recall reading your intake issues so please ignore this if you already unsuccessfully tried this......but would this be a thought?.......
Before gasket installation and intake attachment, lay a thin bead of Hi-Temp Copper RTV in a U-shape at all 4 intake ports on both the heads and the intake? This would need to be done rather quickly before the RTV begins to skin, so that when the intake is torqued down, any mating surface variation might be filled in at the intake ports at both sides of the gaskets. After an overnight cure of the RTV, the "filler" gasket might stop the oil suction?
If this isn't a viable option......maybe?......
Hand fabricate a pair of thin intake gaskets from stock fiber gasket material to be used as a build up, and add these to the new stock intake gaskets. It may crush more at the high sides of the intake mating surfaces more than the lower, thus filling the lower variation thickness where the oil seepage is happening.
Rich
p.s. if these are both off-the-wall ideas sorry but I sometimes have crazy ideas when I get up in the middle of the night(3AM) because my smoke alarm battery went dead and the thing started chirping every 15 seconds. Of course this is the one 12 feet up on the wall and had to drag my 8' step ladder out of the garage to smash the thing off the wall. Also on my 2nd coffee by 4AM so I'm feeling a little wired.(or is it weird?)
pps and the server went down as i was writing this too! jeesh. thanks auto-save!Comment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Can that angle relationship be checked by installing the end rubber gaskets front/back and measuring the visible gap where the side gaskets would be installed. If the side gap is not consistent (top to bottom) the problem may become obvious. How about also looking at the bolt holes to see if they are centered?
Also, talk to a good machine shop for some advice on how to check it, sometimes getting someone else involved can help because of their experiences.Comment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Hi members, Im new on this forum but the problem that is on discussion I solve on my car by using an a felpro intake gasket joined with a cheap intake gasket that comes in the victor gasket set that is being sold on the car events and also on internet for 25.00 bucks, i just make a sandwich gasket with grey import gasket compound in the middle just for joining together and substitute the front and rear small black rubbers with a double amount of grey import gasket compound . Hope this will work for you also.. Harry from the new Puerto Rico ChapterComment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Hmmm, good ideas. Another thought.....Is it possible that Al's intake was previously "shaved" by someone else and is out of spec? May be worth a good check at a "GOOD" machine shop.
Anything can happen with these old used engine pieces as I've been seeing lately myself.
RichComment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Welcome Harry......Good to see members from far away places here on the TDB. (Well not too far from me here in Florida I suppose):-)
That's what I was thinking in my earlier post too, but Joe said he tried that and it didn't work for him. It's a lot of work but it may be worth a try as Al's hardware is unique and may be a option.
Regardless, Tim's ideas to check the gaps at the rails and hole centering may point to something obvious, then attack it with a solution....if possible.
RichComment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
I don't remember why I replaced the shield pins with bolts on this '62 intake. (I did this in the mid 60s.) There are now significant holes in the runners for #4 and #6 that would have access to the valley oil with bolts removed. I assume I made the runner holes larger by drilling and tapping, but in light of your missing shield, check your runners very carefully.
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Rich------
I tried using just about every intake gasket available. For small blocks there are a lot of different gaskets available. Some of these (I don't recall which ones) are much thicker than stock----at least twice as thick. So, it's virtually the same as using two stock gaskets sandwiched together. None of the gaskets I used solved the problem, even partially.In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: UPDATE Intake sucking oil ??
Al,You may have to pull the engine to do this but I doubt it. You need to center the intake on the heads by using a bolt in each corner loosely screwed in. Then measure the gap between the heads & intake at all corners & in the middle. Take these numbers to a GOOD engine machinist & tell him to cut the flats on the intake to lower it to the heads. Sounds like someone milled the heads and mixed up the intakes. When you mill heads the intake has to be cut to match the heads. It's an easy fix and, by the way, all those gaskets & glue will never work.Comment
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