1963 Split window proving ground car - NCRS Discussion Boards

1963 Split window proving ground car

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  • Thomas D.
    Expired
    • March 8, 2010
    • 9

    1963 Split window proving ground car

    I purchase a 63 split window about a year ago. Last week I pulled the clock to have it repaired. On the back of the clock was a name in pencil. I Googled the name and came up with a phone number. I call it and left a message. Three days later there was a message on my machine from the guy, confirming it was in deed his car. He was as excited as I and we spoke for over an hour. He told me all the history about the car including that he was the first registered owner. He bought the car from Matthews Hargreaves Chevy in Royal Oak Michigan with 19,000 miles on it. According to the dealership the car was used at the proving ground by Chevy to test metallic brake shoes. MY question is, is there a way to document the car's history by GM as a test car? Any help would be greatly appreciated.Tom D.
  • Steven B.
    Extremely Frequent Poster
    • June 30, 1982
    • 3976

    #2
    Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

    Tom, try the Historical Documentation Service offered online by NCRS.

    Comment

    • Duke W.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • January 1, 1993
      • 15610

      #3
      Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

      The 686/J-65 metallic brake option well proven from the C1 era. The only change for '63 was wider front shoes and drums, but AFAIK the friction material was carried over from the late C1 era.

      The HD brake system that was part of the Z-06 Special Performance Equipment Package was a whole different story. The first iteration was very poor with inconsistent braking and lots of pull. Chevrolet provided the racing teams who got the first batch of Z-06 Coupes with at least one different shoe set that used different friction material, and I assume Chevrolet would have tested them before releasing the new parts. Whatever test car they used would have had to have the HD brake system, but it didn't necessarily have to be a plant-built Z-06. Engineering could have easily refitted any convenient test car with the HD brake system.

      The Washburn team was so disappointed with the HD brakes that they eventually ended up with a J-65 setup about the time they changed class from AP to CM during the 1963 season.

      If your car was used for any type of internal GM testing it would likely have an early sequence number.

      I'd be curious what it is. Undocumented claims that a car was "special" in some way always have to be taken with a grain of salt.

      Duke

      Comment

      • Mike E.
        Very Frequent User
        • June 24, 2012
        • 920

        #4
        Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

        Originally posted by Steven Brohard (5759)
        Tom, try the Historical Documentation Service offered online by NCRS.
        Steve,
        I think the Historical Documentation Service can supply shipping report which will verify the original owners story (maybe). The other part of the service is to validate any other documents an owner might have and any NCRS awards the car has gotten over it's life.


        Mike

        Comment

        • William C.
          NCRS Past President
          • May 31, 1975
          • 6037

          #5
          Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

          I'm with Duke, GM used to cycle "LOTS" of cars thru various fleets, Company fleets and the like, Testing of the HD brake package would have been completed well before Production cars were being built, and by '63 the development of the disk brakes for '65 would have been well underway. Run it down and see what you find, but not real likely.
          Bill Clupper #618

          Comment

          • Loren L.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • April 30, 1976
            • 4104

            #6
            Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

            More likely a "brass hat" car. Surprised that it was sold as "new".

            Comment

            • Bob H.
              Very Frequent User
              • July 31, 2000
              • 789

              #7
              Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

              Duke:

              Would they ever put 19 k on the car during testing?

              Comment

              • Duke W.
                Beyond Control Poster
                • January 1, 1993
                • 15610

                #8
                Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                Possibly, but it depends on the what was being tested. Cars could be used briefly for one test or some may have been there for months as test beds for various components and systems.

                EPA required a 50K mile emission system durability test to achieve certification, and I believe that requirement started with the first federal emission standards for 1968. The cars were driven 24/7 except for brief downtime to do recommended maintenance, and it took about five weeks to accumulate the full 50K miles.

                I spent a total of one day at Milford during my brief stint as a Pontiac production engineer. Clup might be able to provide more insight.

                Duke

                Comment

                • Thomas D.
                  Expired
                  • March 8, 2010
                  • 9

                  #9
                  Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                  Hi Duke thanks for the info. vin is 3351, fairly early but obviously not the beginning of the run

                  Comment

                  • Duke W.
                    Beyond Control Poster
                    • January 1, 1993
                    • 15610

                    #10
                    Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                    Originally posted by Loren Lundberg (912)
                    More likely a "brass hat" car. Surprised that it was sold as "new".
                    I doubt if is was sold as "new", but agree that it was probably an executive car rather than a test car. GM auctioned exec cars off to dealers for resale as used cars.

                    A Milford test car may have been auctioned to a dealer to sell as used back in those days depending on how severe the testing was. A car that was subject to very severe testing was probably scrapped.

                    I would hate the thought of buying a car that has been run through the "Belgium Block" test schedule.

                    Duke

                    Comment

                    • William C.
                      NCRS Past President
                      • May 31, 1975
                      • 6037

                      #11
                      Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                      Generally "brass hat" (executive) cars were driven 3000 miles and then turned over. Engineering cars could see many more miles and were kept for a longer period of time. Then an assessment was made as to what modifications had been made and the cars were either returned to original state and sold in a dealer auction or scrapped. Another possibility would have been a "class A" purchase by an employe (bought essentially for the Wholesale price) and then turned over at the end of the model year, I know several folks that used to pick up a car each year and drive it already having a buyer in place when the new models came out. Lots of possibilities, but like Duke, I have a problem with a vehicle sold as "New" with high mileage. At least to my knowledge that was not a GM practice in the early 60's. John H may comment also.
                      Bill Clupper #618

                      Comment

                      • Duke W.
                        Beyond Control Poster
                        • January 1, 1993
                        • 15610

                        #12
                        Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                        Unless I missed something the OP never said anything about the car being sold "new" - just said that the first registered owner bought it from a Chev. dealer with 19K miles and the dealer claimed it was used at the proving ground to test metallic brakes.

                        BTW, to the OP there are ways to determine if it originally had J-65 Metallic brakes - segmented shoes and different color springs are one clue, but they could be long gone.

                        If they are GM drums, post the casting numbers and any other identifying symbols. Good photos would help,
                        Also use a caliper to measure the front drum web thickness. That's the real telltale. J-65 drums had the same casting number as base drums, but thicker webs, plus a special ID symbol. Those usually tell the story. Later service drums had different casting numbers, but the same web thickness and ID. Beginning circa 1968 drums had to have the maximum OD indicated. Some were stamped - probably parts removed from inventory for rework to comply with the new FMVSS. Later service drums have the max. OD molded into the casting.

                        If interested you can find some thorough J-65 discussions in the archives.

                        Duke

                        Comment

                        • Matt L.
                          Expired
                          • February 23, 2010
                          • 337

                          #13
                          Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                          hi guys,
                          not the same year by any means but when i worked at a used car dealer in 97 when the new 97 came out, the dealer brought in one that had about 7,000 miles on it and it was beat up! it had a sticker in the glove box saying it was used at the proving grounds.
                          it sounds like you have a cool car Tom. i'd say having any split window is cool !
                          take care,
                          Matt

                          Comment

                          • John H.
                            Beyond Control Poster
                            • December 1, 1997
                            • 16513

                            #14
                            Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                            The dealer would have no way of knowing what testing or evaluation was done - some of the Detroit-area dealers back in the day made quite a "game" of dreaming up histories for the company-owned cars they bought at wholesale auctions (which is how those cars got into the market unless they were "tagged" and bought direct by an employee).

                            Comment

                            • Thomas D.
                              Expired
                              • March 8, 2010
                              • 9

                              #15
                              Re: 1963 Split window proving ground car

                              DukeI read some old postings about the heavy duty brake option and went out to the garage to looked at my car. One brake drum has the regular silencer spring the other is the flat metal spring. What I also didn't realize the car has a 7 leaf rear spring. According to the old posting the heavy duty brakes came with the heavy duty suspension. Is there any else I can look at to try and document these options? Where the front springs a larger diameter? I called the dealer but they only keep records for 10 years.

                              Comment

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