Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

[Pat M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

the problem with judging C4 and C5's are the members who bring them to be judged don't have to work on them to get them to be judged. they bought ultra low mileage garage queen cars that was never touched. unlike the C1,C2 ,and C3 where most of the cars that are judged massive amount of work was done to them to get it to that point. so the message NCRS gives to the younger crowed who they want to bring the newer cars in to be judged is to buy the lowest mile car you can find. and bring it to be judged.

Keith, please don't take offense, but what does it matter if some members didn't have to extensively work on late model cars to have them judge well? Why is that a "problem?" I'm genuinely curious why you and others feel this way. Thanks

[Patrick H.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

So where do you go when the C1, C2, C3 owners all die off, the younger generation isn't interested in those years and all you are left with are C4 guys? ...that's my point.

I'm waiting for the old guys to pass on so I can buy some nice C1 and C2's.

[Michael W.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

I think that's a good point.

I also find it interesting that IIRC NCRS was formed in part because the previous organization refused to allow cars after the C1, and now NCRS seems to be the one excluding certain gens. Not passing judgment, just seems a bit ironic.

I think the NCRS as an organization would love to judge C5s and eventually C6s- but based on the experience with later C3s and now with C4s, there's insufficient interest on the part of the members. There's also the other factor that there's a huge supply of low mileage unmodified cars out there, not much of a challenge to get a Top Flight with a car like that and not much to boast about either.

The cars have changed over the generations, but so have the demographics of useage and ownership. Different ballgame today.

[Mark H.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

You have to start somewhere. Where did the original C1, C2, C3 guys come from when the NCRS started out in the 1970s?

We were car nuts that were into Corvettes. In 1974 they were just used cars, nobody had any idea that some day they'd be "collectible" or "classic". We kind of lucked into that with the combination of the first energy crunch in '73 and the low performance Corvettes Chevy was building in the mid-to-late '70s. My own personal opinion, the solid axle cars and the '63-67 Stingrays will always have people wanting them.

Edit: To follow up, when I got out of the Navy in November, 1975 there was a '67 coupe for sale on a used car lot a couple blocks from my parents house. Silver, with black interior, I can still see it to this day. It was a small block 4-speed and written on the windshield was "$3200 E-Z credit". Like I said, just another used car. It also had the other usual add-ons that most Corvettes had back then, Hurst shifter, after-market wheels, Mickey Thompson valve covers and headers. I don't remember if it had shielding and if somebody had come up to me and said, "It's missing the shielding." I wouldn't have had the slightest idea what he was talking about. My point is back then almost nobody knew anything about these cars, but thanks to NCRS now we do. But it's a different story with C-4's and on up. GM has kept very good records and documentation so there's not too much mystery to these cars anymore. (By the way, didn't buy the '67. Was going back to school and needed something a little more practical, got a Firebird instead.)

[David B.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Jack, as NJC, I favor the organization moving forward into the judging of C-5's. You asked about the likelihood of this being in place by 2018-2019, and my personal response is that this is reasonable. This decision is not mine alone, but I do intend to put it on the table for discussion with the big boys and girls. I am not particularly concerned with the "too low to the ground" or the "C-4's didn't help us" arguments. Thanks for asking the question. Dave

[John D.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Side note. My long gone May 83 car was the first C4 to be used at an NCRS judging school sponsored by the Pittsburgh chapter. What shocked me personally was the amount of interest shown by judges that typically judge C1's and C2's.
Hardest thing about judging my car that day was finding the engine pad. LOL.

[Pat M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

There's also the other factor that there's a huge supply of low mileage unmodified cars out there, not much of a challenge to get a Top Flight with a car like that and not much to boast about either.

The cars have changed over the generations, but so have the demographics of useage and ownership. Different ballgame today.

As I understand it, the NCRS mission is to encourage the restoration, preservation, and enjoyment of Corvettes. I'm unsure as to why this would be less applicable to those generations that have a large supply of well preserved cars. To the contrary, I would've thought that would've been celebrated. I would also suggest that late model Top Flight, Mclellan and Crossed-Flags recipients are quite proud of those awards, and should be.

And of course the cars have changed over the generations, but that's no reason to exclude late models any more than it justified excluding C2s in the organization NCRS sprang from, nor C3s after NCRS was formed. They're all Corvettes.

I'm delighted to see NJC David Brigham's post wherein he said he'd like to eventually see C5 judging and that he was "not particularly concerned with the "too low to the ground" or the "C-4's didn't help us" arguments."

[Chris E.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Jack, as NJC, I favor the organization moving forward into the judging of C-5's. You asked about the likelihood of this being in place by 2018-2019, and my personal response is that this is reasonable. This decision is not mine alone, but I do intend to put it on the table for discussion with the big boys and girls. I am not particularly concerned with the "too low to the ground" or the "C-4's didn't help us" arguments. Thanks for asking the question. Dave

I stand corrected. Thanks Dave.

[Terry M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

I think that's a good point.

I also find it interesting that IIRC NCRS was formed in part because the previous organization refused to allow cars after the C1, and now NCRS seems to be the one excluding certain gens. Not passing judgment, just seems a bit ironic.

Pat,
Just to set the historical record straight (and no I wasn't there): NCRS was formed in 1974 because the Corvette organization the founders belonged to The Vintage Corvette Club Of America was not sufficiently interested in judging Corvettes, and the seven founders (on the inside cover of every Restorer) were interested in those details. Additionally the VCCoA was pretty much a one man operation, somewhat lacking in member participation. In 1970 a group spun off the VCCoA and formed the Classic Corvette Club 1953-1955. By 1974 most of the same group formed NCRS and 1953 to 1962 Corvettes were judged.

Still later the 1963 to 1967 cars were brought in much to the dismay of many members; some of whom gave up their membership in disgust. In 1985 (and I was there) we began to judge 1968 to 1972, and there were a few cries of dismay, but not nearly as many as when the midyears came in. We have brought in successive groupings of newer Corvettes as time has gone on, but the founding was driven by the negative reaction to the policies of the operator of the VCCoA.

[Pat M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Terry thanks for the background.

Going strictly off memory I thought I read a story in the Restorer that the leader of the CCC thought it was unacceptable to judge C2s - perhaps he didn't want to judge post '55 cars. In any event, eventually NCRS was formed and later C1s and C2s were judged, and then C3s, etc. The point being several times in the past later model cars were thought to be not worthy of being judged for whatever reason and I think history has shown that thinking to be a mistake. And I'd rather not see history repeat itself. JMHO

[Michael W.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

As I understand it, the NCRS mission is to encourage the restoration, preservation, and enjoyment of Corvettes. I'm unsure as to why this would be less applicable to those generations that have a large supply of well preserved cars. To the contrary, I would've thought that would've been celebrated. I would also suggest that late model Top Flight, Mclellan and Crossed-Flags recipients are quite proud of those awards, and should be.

And of course the cars have changed over the generations, but that's no reason to exclude late models any more than it justified excluding C2s in the organization NCRS sprang from, nor C3s after NCRS was formed. They're all Corvettes.

I'm delighted to see NJC David Brigham's post wherein he said he'd like to eventually see C5 judging and that he was "not particularly concerned with the "too low to the ground" or the "C-4's didn't help us" arguments."

Please don't misunderstand me- as clarified by Dave, the NCRS is very much in favour of judging C5s and I suppose C6s when their turn comes. The NCRS opened their doors to the later C3s and then progressively C4s when they became 'of age'. That's not the issue

There has not been an overwhelming volume of these cars presented by their owners for judging, despite the large number of cars produced. Are the C5s going to be different? Dunno.

[Rob M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Side note. My long gone May 83 car was the first C4 to be used at an NCRS judging school sponsored by the Pittsburgh chapter. What shocked me personally was the amount of interest shown by judges that typically judge C1's and C2's.
Hardest thing about judging my car that day was finding the engine pad. LOL.

we had exactly the same experience when we judged the first C4 at LeMans with the English chapter (using the concept version of the C4 manual as a trial run for the C4 TL). Finding the stamp pad took us almost an hour...

[Terry M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Terry thanks for the background.

Going strictly off memory I thought I read a story in the Restorer that the leader of the CCC thought it was unacceptable to judge C2s - perhaps he didn't want to judge post '55 cars. In any event, eventually NCRS was formed and later C1s and C2s were judged, and then C3s, etc. The point being several times in the past later model cars were thought to be not worthy of being judged for whatever reason and I think history has shown that thinking to be a mistake. And I'd rather not see history repeat itself. JMHO

Pat,
You did read such a story. It was in the 25th Anniversary issue of The Restorer. The one with the silver embossed cover. I cheated and looked before I posted the above. I wouldn't be surprised to see a sililar but updated story covering the same events in the near future.

[Rob M.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Pat,
You did read such a story. It was in the 25th Anniversary issue of The Restorer. The one with the silver embossed cover. I cheated and looked before I posted the above. I wouldn't be surprised to see a sililar but updated story covering the same events in the near future.

same happened when we updated the previous version of the TDB (when we migrated from a cgi based app to VBulletin).

[Jack U.]

Re: Need an approximate year for C5 judging availability

Thank you sir. I applaud your vision. I'm willing to stay a member (just not as involved) in NCRS pending a positive outcome from your discussions at the upper levels.