'65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

**Paul D.** · January 28, 2014, 05:02 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Ashley, I think you will have to elaborate or supply photos. There should be no "loose fit" between the bushing and control arm. This should be a press fit or interference fit. Chip.

**Joe L.** · January 28, 2014, 05:04 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Originally posted by Ashley Scarborough (44731)

I have a set of new lower control arms and bushings that I purchased from a well known vendor, but I'm concerned about the tolerances between the control arm and the bushing. They bushings fit VERY loose.

I called the vendor and was advised to send both back to be evaluated. After looking them over, they said that that was normal on these. He said he looked at good quality originals and also other new products and all fit in this way. By the way, I like the vendor and the people there, so I'm not upset. I just don't want to go through all this trouble and not do this correctly. I really want my car to handle like new when I get done.

I've installed my upper control arms and the fitment is MUCH closer on those. I have new shafts and bushings from the same vendor for the uppers.

Are the lower arms supposed be be a loose fit like this? Can anyone offer advice on how to check, or what tolerances I should expect?

I hope I'm making sense.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

Ashley------

When you removed the old bushings from the lower control arms did they come out easily?

Can you precisely measure (i.e. with a vernier caliper or micrometer) the OD of the interference fit section of the new bushings and report here?

**Ashley S.** · January 28, 2014, 05:22 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Joe,
It was very tough to get the old bushings out of the control arms. I used the air chisel method described by several people on this board.

I am waiting on the bushings and cross shafts to be returned and I hope to have them by the end of this week or early next week. As soon as I get them, I will measure the new bushings and the new cross shafts and report what I find.

Already, I can tell by the 2 replies so far, that I'm far too loose.

**Edward J.** · January 28, 2014, 06:39 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Ashley, Its nice to have something that is reproduced that looks correct, But there is a lot of repro. stuff produced overseas these days and the quality control is just not there. My advice is to go to your local Auto parts store, (Napa, Carquest ) or at least someone who carries Moog chassis parts. Or look for a NOS set- maybe on E-bay.

**Gary R.** · January 28, 2014, 06:54 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Ashley,I think I have some new MOOG's in the shop, I can measure them if you like but I won't be in till afternoon.

**Joe L.** · January 28, 2014, 10:03 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Ashley------

I can tell you that an NOS GM #3714368 lower control arm bushing measures an OD of 1.328" at the point of interference fit. The ID of the bushing is 0.742.

**Ashley S.** · January 31, 2014, 02:19 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Here is what I measured for my replacement parts. OD of the cross shaft = .729". ID of the bushing = .746"

How does that look to you guys?

**Gary R.** · January 31, 2014, 03:02 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Hi Ashley, I opened up what I have left here for MOOG parts. Interestingly these were purchased about 4-5 years ago and the bushings are made in Mexico, the ball joints USA.

The lower bushings, K304 are .738" ID measured with a gauge pin. Calipers were all over the place. 739" might be close to an interference fit so use the .738". I didn't have a bare lower shaft to measure though.

**Terry M.** · January 31, 2014, 04:16 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Originally posted by Ashley Scarborough (44731)

I have a set of new lower control arms and bushings that I purchased from a well known vendor, but I'm concerned about the tolerances between the control arm and the bushing. They bushings fit VERY loose.

I called the vendor and was advised to send both back to be evaluated. After looking them over, they said that that was normal on these. He said he looked at good quality originals and also other new products and all fit in this way. By the way, I like the vendor and the people there, so I'm not upset. I just don't want to go through all this trouble and not do this correctly. I really want my car to handle like new when I get done.

I've installed my upper control arms and the fitment is MUCH closer on those. I have new shafts and bushings from the same vendor for the uppers.

Are the lower arms supposed be be a loose fit like this? Can anyone offer advice on how to check, or what tolerances I should expect?

I hope I'm making sense.

Thanks for any input you can offer.

Ashley,
The ID of the bushings and the OD of the shaft are not of great concern. When the nuts are tightened on the shaft the nuts are forced against the inner tube of the bushing. The saw-toothed edge of the bushing inner tube locks that tube between the nut and the collar created by the greater diameter of the inner portion of the shaft. That locking action holds the inner collar in place even if there is some play between the shaft and the inner tube.

Of more concern are the outer diameter of the bushing and the inner diameter of the hole in the control arm. That fit must be an interference fit as nothing else holds the control arm to the bushing.

That locking of the saw-toothed inner sleeve is why one is advised not to tighten the control arm shaft nuts until the control arm is at ride height. That means body on the frame and most, preferably all, of the interior is in place along with glass and trim. The movement of the control arm relative to the shaft, which is affixed to the chassis, is all taken up by the elastic of the rubber in the bushing. That rubber is bonded to both the bushing outer sleeve and bushing inner sleeve.

**Gene M.** · January 31, 2014, 08:35 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

yes, what Terry said. And the press of the bushing OD into the control arms should be one hell of a hydraulic press fit. I had a repro bushing go bad in less than 20k miles. They are all now replaced with Moog bushings. So much for repro crap.

**Joe L.** · January 31, 2014, 11:31 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Originally posted by Gene Manno (8571)

yes, what Terry said. And the press of the bushing OD into the control arms should be one hell of a hydraulic press fit. I had a repro bushing go bad in less than 20k miles. They are all now replaced with Moog bushings. So much for repro crap.

Gene-----

Lower bushings embossed on the rubber with "Harris" are the same as OEM. Any others are aftermarket or "reproduction".

**Gary R.** · January 31, 2014, 11:38 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Joe,The above pictured made in Mex Moog's have the Harris name molded in them.

**Joe L.** · January 31, 2014, 11:50 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Originally posted by Gary Ramadei (14833)

Joe,The above pictured made in Mex Moog's have the Harris name molded in them.

Gary------

Apparently, Harris now manufactures in Mexico. I would expect the quality to be the same, though. Also, if these Moog bushings manufactured by Harris are made in Mexico, then I would fully expect that the current GM SERVICE OEM bushings are made there, too. Harris was and is the OEM manufacturer.

Do the bushings actually say "Made in Mexico" or is that on the kit? It might be that the bushings are still made in the US but the kit is otherwise made in Mexico.

Incidentally, the upper bushings were originally made by Harris, too. Those are the ones with the rubber "extension" on the inner end (just like the Harris lower bushings). In 1973 the supplier (and part number) of the upper bushings changed. The new supplier was Clevite and the bushings are so-embossed.

**Gene M.** · February 1, 2014, 06:18 PM

Re: '65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

Originally posted by Joe Lucia (12484)

Gene-----

Lower bushings embossed on the rubber with "Harris" are the same as OEM. Any others are aftermarket or "reproduction".

Thanks Joe, interesting piece of information, I never looked that close on the Moog bushings I installed.

'65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

'65 Lower Control Arm to Bushing Fit

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