1963 timing chain change, recommendations

[Ruedi K.]

Hello togetherI would like to change the timing chain on my 1963 Corvette (327/300HP).Which one would you recommend?Corvette Central for example has two types. One is double roller and the other normal?Would like to use the best available and suitable for my car.Thank you in advance for your help.Rudy

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Hello togetherI would like to change the timing chain on my 1963 Corvette (327/300HP).Which one would you recommend?Corvette Central for example has two types. One is double roller and the other normal?Would like to use the best available and suitable for my car.Thank you in advance for your help.Rudy

Reudi------


If you want to be absolutely certain of no fitment problems, then use a stock-type, early link timing set. Your original camshaft sprocket was aluminum with nylon teeth. I don't recommend using that type, though. Use a set with cast iron cam sprocket. Keep in mind that 55-66 small blocks used a wider timing set than 67+. You want to stay with the original width set.

However, if you want to upgrade, I highly recommend using a Cloyes True Roller set, Cloyes #9-3100. This set uses a very high quality Renolds double roller chain. This is the ONLY set I ever use on a small block. Sometimes, it might require very slight grinding of the block to avoid interference with the sprocket. However, I've NEVER installed one that required this and I've never talked to anyone else that needed to, either.

[Ruedi K.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

JoeThank you for your answer. I would like to use a stock type with no fitment problems. Do you have a link to an online store where I can order such a thing. I won't use the nylon ones if you say I should avoid them. Sometimes it is a problem to have everything shipped as I live in Switzerland. Thank you for further advice.

[Duke W.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Actually, '63 engines used the "wide" silent chain with a cast iron cam spocket. This was replaced by the "narrow" silent chain (two less chain rows) in the late sixties with a nylon tooth cam sprocket, which was junk. The nylon tooth sprocket was later replaced with a cast iron sprocket, and is one of the currently available OE replacements.

A better choice for about the same price is the double row truck roller chain, which is still available from Sealed Power. The only difference between the Sealed Power OE truck replacement chain set and the Cloyes is that the Cloyes has slightly larger rollers, .25" versus .20" which may actually be a disadvantage in a high rev application due to higher surface velocity between the rollers and pins at any given RPM, which means more friction.

The Sealed Power truck roller chain set is a high quality part - built to the original GM specs, and it costs less than a third of the overpriced Cloyes. How many guys do you know who have an old small block truck that ran 200-300K miles before it needed any internal engine work other than a head refresh along the way? I've known several.

As I've said many times, with a couple of well known exceptions, like the early, weak small block connecting rods, you can buy OE spec replacement parts in the Sealed Power (Federal Mogul) or Clevite (Dana Corp.) brands from NAPA or any other parts outlets that carries FM and Dana brand replacement parts, and most of these outlets have online catalogs to search for proper parts, and FM and Dana also have online catalogs.

You don't have to go to a Corvette parts vendor or some hot rod parts vendor to buy OE quality replacement parts at reasonable prices. The Sealed Power part number for the truck roller chain set is C-3023K, and you should be able to readily find it for $20-25. The C-3023X is the same thing with options to advance or retard the cam 4 degrees. The late narrow silent chain with a cast iron cam sprocket, C-3025, is also perfectly acceptable, and it's about the same price as the truck roller chain.

Chevrolet used "silent chains" on passenger car engines and roller chains on truck engines. The theory was probably that the silent chain yielded less noise, but I doubt if you could detect a difference between a silent and roller chain in a Corvette.

Now if you have a hot rod cam with gorilla valve springs that are 120 pounds on the seat and 350 pounds full open and you like to power shift at 7500revs, then I recommend the $90 Cloyes as the larger rollers will better withstand the abusive shock loading of this kind of use.

If you drive your Corvette in more of a "normal" manner then the OE truck roller chain will likely outlive you.

BTW I recommend you scrap the OE '63 connecting rods. Even on a 300 HP engine they are suspect. I recommend the Eagle SIR5700 small journal rod to replace originals on SHP/FI engines that are set up to rev to 6500-7000. The Eagles are a cost effective (about $250) replacement for high-revving engines.

I also recommend that the later '66-up second design 327 conn. rods (with the additional material adjacent to the bolt seat) be saved and passed on to low revving 283s and early 327 owners with the weak first design. With nothing but a dimensional conformity check they are okay to use as-is on engines that won't be revved over 5500-6000. They don't need new bolts and don't need "resizing" as long as they pass dimensional checks - particulary the big end for conformace to basic ID and roundness.

Duke

[Ruedi K.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Hello Duke

Thank you for the very detailed explanation. So I might use the truck roller chain. Just another question. Corvette Central has two replacements one "normal" which is more expensive and another double riller type which is cheaper. I will order a few parts from them and would like to ask if the ones they sell are also OK? Sorry for asking many questions.

[Duke W.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

I have absolutely no idea what Corvette Central sells, and I doubt if anyone else does, either. You could ask whoever anwers the phone, but I doubt he will even know. They certainly don't make internal engine parts. They likely just repackage parts made by someone else (and jack up the price by at least 50 percent), but who knows who it is. That's why Corvette parts vendors are my last choice in replacment engine parts.

Federal Mogul and Dana sell parts all over the world. I don't know how they are distributed in Europe, so that's something you need to reseach. Buying FM or Dana brand parts assures you of quality because you know the parts are manufactured by a Tier 1 OE quality manufacturerer that conforms to ISO quality standards, etc. They will also likely be lower priced than the no-name parts sold by Corvette parts vendors.

When it comes to items like emblems and upholstery Corvette parts vendors are often the only source. But when it comes to mechanical parts, and particularly internal engine parts, I only recommend FM and Dana with a couple of exceptions like the early SB conn. rods.

Duke

[Ruedi K.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Thank you. I will then try to buy from Sealed power or Dana.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Thank you. I will then try to buy from Sealed power or Dana.

A search shows that there are a LOT of sellers of this part.
Amazon sells it, has a great price, and likely ships to the Netherlands.

[Ruedi K.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

So this one seems right http://www.jegs.com/i/Cloyes/220/C-3023X/10002/-1 double roller.

I searched with the part number and found it.

[Ruedi K.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Joe, if I want to use a stock type early link timing set. So I have no problems to install.

Would the following be good then? I am not sure if 9-3100 Cloeys or that http://www.jegs.com/i/Cloyes/220/C3001K/10002/-1

Thank you again. Last post for this thread

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Joe, if I want to use a stock type early link timing set. So I have no problems to install.

Would the following be good then? I am not sure if 9-3100 Cloeys or that http://www.jegs.com/i/Cloyes/220/C3001K/10002/-1

Thank you again. Last post for this thread

Ruedi------


The Cloyes 9-3100 is a double roller timing set. If you want to go with a stock-type, early link style timing set you could use the Cloyes C3001K which you found on Jegs. You could also use the Sealed Power/Federal-Mogul KT 3-489S. Jegs may have this one, too. Summit Racing (www.summitracing.com) carries both.

You don't need to be concerned that you'll get an aluminum/nylon camshaft sprocket with either of these. However, you may get a powder metal camshaft sprocket with either. I don't like powder metal camshaft sprockets.

By the way, the aluminum/nylon camshaft sprockets are actually quite hard to come by these days. If you actually wanted one, you'd be very hard-pressed to come up with a source. For certain types of racing, I'm told these are preferred although I have no idea why. The racers have a hard time coming up with them.

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

Actually, '63 engines used the "wide" silent chain with a cast iron cam spocket. This was replaced by the "narrow" silent chain (two less chain rows) in the late sixties with a nylon tooth cam sprocket, which was junk. The nylon tooth sprocket was later replaced with a cast iron sprocket, and is one of the currently available OE replacements.

A better choice for about the same price is the double row truck roller chain, which is still available from Sealed Power. The only difference between the Sealed Power OE truck replacement chain set and the Cloyes is that the Cloyes has slightly larger rollers, .25" versus .20" which may actually be a disadvantage in a high rev application due to higher surface velocity between the rollers and pins at any given RPM, which means more friction.

The Sealed Power truck roller chain set is a high quality part - built to the original GM specs, and it costs less than a third of the overpriced Cloyes. How many guys do you know who have an old small block truck that ran 200-300K miles before it needed any internal engine work other than a head refresh along the way? I've known several.

As I've said many times, with a couple of well known exceptions, like the early, weak small block connecting rods, you can buy OE spec replacement parts in the Sealed Power (Federal Mogul) or Clevite (Dana Corp.) brands from NAPA or any other parts outlets that carries FM and Dana brand replacement parts, and most of these outlets have online catalogs to search for proper parts, and FM and Dana also have online catalogs.

You don't have to go to a Corvette parts vendor or some hot rod parts vendor to buy OE quality replacement parts at reasonable prices. The Sealed Power part number for the truck roller chain set is C-3023K, and you should be able to readily find it for $20-25. The C-3023X is the same thing with options to advance or retard the cam 4 degrees. The late narrow silent chain with a cast iron cam sprocket, C-3025, is also perfectly acceptable, and it's about the same price as the truck roller chain.

Chevrolet used "silent chains" on passenger car engines and roller chains on truck engines. The theory was probably that the silent chain yielded less noise, but I doubt if you could detect a difference between a silent and roller chain in a Corvette.

Now if you have a hot rod cam with gorilla valve springs that are 120 pounds on the seat and 350 pounds full open and you like to power shift at 7500revs, then I recommend the $90 Cloyes as the larger rollers will better withstand the abusive shock loading of this kind of use.

If you drive your Corvette in more of a "normal" manner then the OE truck roller chain will likely outlive you.

BTW I recommend you scrap the OE '63 connecting rods. Even on a 300 HP engine they are suspect. I recommend the Eagle SIR5700 small journal rod to replace originals on SHP/FI engines that are set up to rev to 6500-7000. The Eagles are a cost effective (about $250) replacement for high-revving engines.

I also recommend that the later '66-up second design 327 conn. rods (with the additional material adjacent to the bolt seat) be saved and passed on to low revving 283s and early 327 owners with the weak first design. With nothing but a dimensional conformity check they are okay to use as-is on engines that won't be revved over 5500-6000. They don't need new bolts and don't need "resizing" as long as they pass dimensional checks - particulary the big end for conformace to basic ID and roundness.

Duke

Duke------

Yes, I mis-spoke regarding the camshaft sprocket used for 1963. It was the cast iron sprocket, not aluminum. The aluminum sprocket with nylon teeth began for the 1966 model year. It was the ONLY year that used the "wide" timing set with an aluminum/nylon sprocket.

However, I did not mis-speak regarding the Cloyes 9-3100. In my opinion and the opinion of many others, this is the finest timing set on the market for small block, Gen I Chevrolet engines. I wouldn't even consider using any other in a small block engine. This timing set is absolutely not the same as other, lesser priced double roller timing sets.

In fact, I was greatly disappointed when I assembled my "ZL-1". The big block equivalent of the 9-3100, the Cloyes 9-3110, cannot be used with this engine if a factory-style roller cam is also used. So, I used a Cloyes single roller with hardened ductile iron timing sprocket. The factory OEM set for Gen VI big blocks with roller cam (which Cloyes manufactures, not Federal-Mogul) uses a powder metal camshaft sprocket. I don't want any part of that.

[Michael H.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

By the way, the aluminum/nylon camshaft sprockets are actually quite hard to come by these days. If you actually wanted one, you'd be very hard-pressed to come up with a source. For certain types of racing, I'm told these are preferred although I have no idea why. The racers have a hard time coming up with them.

Joe

The info on using the aluminum/nylon cam gear for racing came directly from GM engineering somewhere around 1967-68. The folks in "the back room" at GM specifically recommended using this cam gear over a solid gear. The recommendation stayed the same at least through the remainder of the Trans-AM Camaro series.

We built several 305" Trans-Am engines with the aluminum/nylon gears at that time and never had any issues.

I think time and heat is what eventually kills the nylon but they were quite durable for at least a season of racing.

[Dan D.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

When we used to stock car race SB Chevy engines (back in the 60s), we once used a nylon cam sprocket. It didn't last but a few races and broke into several pieces. At one point we also had one on a 427 CI Ford engine. That also broke and destroyed the engine as unlike the SB, that was an interference engine. After that - no more aluminum sprockets.

-Dan-

[Jim L.]

Re: 1963 timing chain change, recommendations

regarding the Cloyes 9-3100. In my opinion and the opinion of many others, this is the finest timing set on the market for small block, Gen I Chevrolet engines. I wouldn't even consider using any other in a small block engine. This timing set is absolutely not the same as other, lesser priced double roller timing sets.

I used the Cloyes chain on my road racing engine. It was drum-tight when initially installed. 3000 track miles later, I tore the engine down for freshening. The Cloyes chain was still drum tight. That's good enough for me and I won't use anything else.

Jim