67 fuel pump questions

[Joseph U.]

Looks like i really have the "Gas Gremlins". more gas smell in the garage and a gas puddle under the 67 small block. Gas line is OK but gas appears to be seeping out of the fuel pump, I think from where the top and bottom halves are joined together. So it looks like I have to either replace or "have replaced" the fuel pump. (did this when I was younger with my pontiac lemans 326 and remember much #@%^$&* but also remember that I needed the car the next morning - so working slow and stopping was not an option). I have read some of the posts on fuel pump replace and I have a few questions before I decide to either do it myself or have it done.
1. does anyone have a picture of how the pump rod looks inside the engine block - It would help me if I could visualize what I was trying to do as I position the pump. I notice some us "Grease" and some use a long "bolt" to hold things in place - but it would help me if I know what I was trying to hold in place with what?
2. I have attached a copy of a picture from the archives showing the front of the block with the two holes. I have also attached a copy of the front of my block - is the top hole on the archives picture the same as the hole with the bolt in it on my car and is that the bolt that is talked about using when replacing the fuel pump.
3. Do you think this can be done without removing the radiator hose?
4. It is suggested that I stop the engine at TDC - how do I do that?
Thanks for the help,
Joe

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[Joe L.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Looks like i really have the "Gas Gremlins". more gas smell in the garage and a gas puddle under the 67 small block. Gas line is OK but gas appears to be seeping out of the fuel pump, I think from where the top and bottom halves are joined together. So it looks like I have to either replace or "have replaced" the fuel pump. (did this when I was younger with my pontiac lemans 326 and remember much #@%^$&* but also remember that I needed the car the next morning - so working slow and stopping was not an option). I have read some of the posts on fuel pump replace and I have a few questions before I decide to either do it myself or have it done.
1. does anyone have a picture of how the pump rod looks inside the engine block - It would help me if I could visualize what I was trying to do as I position the pump. I notice some us "Grease" and some use a long "bolt" to hold things in place - but it would help me if I know what I was trying to hold in place with what?
2. I have attached a copy of a picture from the archives showing the front of the block with the two holes. I have also attached a copy of the front of my block - is the top hole on the archives picture the same as the hole with the bolt in it on my car and is that the bolt that is talked about using when replacing the fuel pump.
3. Do you think this can be done without removing the radiator hose?
4. It is suggested that I stop the engine at TDC - how do I do that?
Thanks for the help,
Joe

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51041[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]51042[/ATTACH]

Joe------


1) Set the engine to TDC. The simplest way to do this is to rotate the engine until the timing mark on the balancer lines up with the "0" timing mark on the timing tab AND the distributor rotor points to the #1 firing position;

2) Remove the bolt in your picture and install a longer bolt, about 2" long. I like to use a brass or nylon bolt to avoid any possibility of nicking the pump push rod. However, you can use a steel bolt if you're careful. Screw the bolt down only firm hand tight;

3) Remove the fuel pump and install the new one. It will take some pressure to seat the pump flange on the plate. You can start the bolts and use them to draw the fuel pump in. If it requires no pressure to seat the pump flange, then you don't have the pump arm properly seated on the push-rod;

4) remove the long bolt and install the short bolt. The short bolt should only be about 1/2" long. Apply sealer to the bolt before installation.

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Thanks Joe,
But please help me understand. As in the picture below there is a flange coming out of the fuel pump which I assume moves up and down to pump the gas. From your response paragraph 3 I would guess that there is a "push rod" that moves this flange. Does it come in and push on the flange from the "top" (pushing down), from the bottom (pushing up) or from the rear (or front) of the engine, resting either under or over the flange and moving the flange up and down? And what is the longer bolt securing (the push rod I would assume). Since it goes in from the front and is screwed down (finger tight) - I would assume it is some how fixing the position of the push rod - since it goes in before the fuel pump is removed. From the location of the hole it would seem that the bolt is located in the region of the end of the flange, and it looks to me like it might be higher than the flange. So is the bolt keeping the flange from going up (which would suggest that the flange is under the bolt and needs to be inserted with a tilt down before seating the pump. Just trying to get a visual in my mind before attempting this (and of course probably making things seem harder than they really are). Thanks for the education.
Joe

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[Joe L.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Thanks Joe,
But please help me understand. As in the picture below there is a flange coming out of the fuel pump which I assume moves up and down to pump the gas. From your response paragraph 3 I would guess that there is a "push rod" that moves this flange. Does it come in and push on the flange from the "top" (pushing down), from the bottom (pushing up) or from the rear (or front) of the engine, resting either under or over the flange and moving the flange up and down? And what is the longer bolt securing (the push rod I would assume). Since it goes in from the front and is screwed down (finger tight) - I would assume it is some how fixing the position of the push rod - since it goes in before the fuel pump is removed. From the location of the hole it would seem that the bolt is located in the region of the end of the flange, and it looks to me like it might be higher than the flange. So is the bolt keeping the flange from going up (which would suggest that the flange is under the bolt and needs to be inserted with a tilt down before seating the pump. Just trying to get a visual in my mind before attempting this (and of course probably making things seem harder than they really are). Thanks for the education.
Joe

[ATTACH=CONFIG]51044[/ATTACH]

Joe------



First, let's get our terms straight. The part protruding from the pump is called the fuel pump rocker arm. The flange is the part of the fuel pump aluminum casting which seats against the block. The fuel pump push rod is a round, dowel-like rod that installs into a boring in the block and operates between a lobe on the camshaft and the fuel pump rocker arm.

The fuel pump push rod forces the fuel pump rocker arm "down"

The installation of the longer bolt simply retains the fuel pump push rod in its bore to facilitate the installation of the fuel pump. It does not contact the fuel pump rocker arm, at all. With the engine at the TDC position, the fuel pump push rod will be at its most "retracted" position which is the most advantageous for fuel pump installation. If the bolt were not used, the fuel pump push rod would slide down in its bore and make fuel pump installation difficult.

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Thanks Joe,
Your explanation is perfect and helps reinforce what I was able to find out as well.
I have attached two pictures for the next NCRS newbie who has this issue. The first several pictures are of the opening in the block for the fuel pump. It shows the tunnel that the push rod goes thru to connect the camshaft (via the rod) with the fuel pump rocker arm and the push rod. As I understand it the problem is that with the pump out "gravity" will allow the rod to slip down the tunnel, away from the cam shaft and into that cavity blocking the insertion of the pump. The first picture shows the hole in the block with the screw - all it really does is wedge the rod in place so it can't fall into the cavity and block the pump insertion. I understand now and really unless I over tighten the bolt there should not be anything I can really break as I insert the pump.
As alway Joe thanks for your help and the help of all the NCRS members.Maybe I can return the favor some time.
Joe

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[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Joe,
just a few more questions:
what sort of Sealer for the front bolt?
Just regular gasket cement about the fuel pump or some sort of silicone cement? don't need a leak after all of this is done.
thanks again,
Joe

[Joe L.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Joe,
just a few more questions:
what sort of Sealer for the front bolt?
Just regular gasket cement about the fuel pump or some sort of silicone cement? don't need a leak after all of this is done.
thanks again,
Joe

Joe------


Just about any sealer will work. I usually use Permatex #2 on this bolt but silicone RTV should work just as well. Just a little dab will do. Make sure the threads on the bolt and in the block are clean first, though.

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Same for the fuel pump gasket?

[Joe L.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Same for the fuel pump gasket?

Joe-----


Actually, you can usually get by with no sealer on the fuel pump gasket; the factory used none. However, I usually use a VERY THIN (no more than a film) coating of silicone RTV on this gasket.

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Thanks again, Joe

Joe

[Ara G.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Also, I do not think it's a good idea to use Teflon tape on your fuel fitting on the pump. It will break down from the gas and break off ending up in your fuel system. Just my thoughts....ARA

[Timothy B.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

100% agree with Ara, use some permatex #2 around the threads, the flare will seal itself.

[Joe L.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

100% agree with Ara, use some permatex #2 around the threads, the flare will seal itself.

Tim-----


No sealer of any kind is required on the threads. The tubing nut provides absolutely no seal, at all. The nut simply provides compression and retention of the flared fitting. If it doesn't seal at the flare, no amount of sealer on the threads is going to prevent a leak.

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

I assume you are talking about the line from the fuel pump to the carburetor. The line from the fuel tank metal line to the pump is rubber.
Joe

[Joseph U.]

Re: 67 fuel pump questions

Joe,
I replaced the fuel pump as you suggested - no problem at all - stopped the engine at TDC, secured the push rod with a bolt and replaced the fuel pump - only problem is I needed no pressure at all to seat the fuel pump - just went right in. So any suggestion as to what I have done wrong and how to correct it - I don't want to crank the engine if the fuel pump is in incorrectly.
BTW - I have attached a picture of the old pump - it has 2 holes in it that gas was dripping out of - the new fuel pump does not have those holes in it - any idea what those holes are?
Thanks ,
Joe

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