New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

[Craig J.]

Hi Folks,

I recently acquired a 1977 L48 4-speed from the original owner and joined NCRS on 2/28/14. The Vette has 41,120 miles currently and looks to be mostly original. I was doing some clean up over the weekend and discovered that the passenger-side front caliper is leaking fluid past the dust seals, so it's time to either rebuild or buy replacements. The part number on the outer half (didn't check inner) is 5452273, so I think this is a correct part for the '77.

I've not had time to disassemble the caliper, but I'm assuming that if it is original, it will need to be bored and sleeved. Several vendors have calipers (some new, some rebuilt), and I'd like to know of anyone has experience with the calipers from Duntov, CSSB, Lonestar, Muskeegon, or NAPA/Advance/AZ/etc. Ideally, I'd like to have correct numbers on the calipers. I'm also planning on replacing/servicing the driver-side front caliper too.

On my driver-side rear caliper, it is number 5452384, so I think that is correct. The passenger-side rear caliper is marked "H5G" or "H56" (hard to read that last character) so who knows what that is. Both rear calipers look to have been replaced, and the parking brake cable looks to been replaced too.

Any recommendations and thoughts about rebuild vs. replace are appreciated. Also, do Duntov, Muskeegon, etc do their own rebuilds, or are they reselling someone else's calipers?

One last thought...does anyone make a reproduction rubber brake line for the front and rear that have the "DOT" labels on them? I'm guessing mine are original, but they look okay, are flexible, and nothing is leaking, but it is probably prudent to replace them. Thank you.

[Patrick H.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Craig,

What is your goal with the car?
Driving? Judging? Trying for a Bowtie award (if you've even looked into this)? It all makes a difference.

Having said that, places like Vette Brakes and others will rebuild your caliper and return it to you if you wish.
Or, it's not horribly difficult to take it apart and see if you want to install new seals and pistons yourself, leaving the patina of the original caliper.

While not impossible it is somewhat unlikely they are still original after this many years. So look carefully at the caliper. If it's painted silver then it's been replaced.

Let us know your thoughts.

[Craig J.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Hi Patrick,

My goal is to keep the car as original as possible and as driveable as possible. I'm also registered for an NCRS judging event the end of this month -- since I'm not familiar with the Vette, having folks that know what they're looking at would be very helpful! I don't anticipate that I'll be attending many judging events, so this upcoming event will help me understand what is right and what is wrong with this car, and how best to preserve it. The big reason for attending is to meet other Corvette folks!

The front calipers are rusty, so whatever paint was there is long gone. The rear calipers are mainly silver, but are also rusting.

For a Bowtie award, is it better to have the parts that show their age or to have new, correct parts? (note to self...read up on judging)

Seems like most places have the rebuild kits for these calipers, and my preference would be to find USA made parts vs import. Thank you.

[Duke W.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

If one caliper is leaking the others and the master cylinder may not be far behind. These leaks occur due to internal corrosion as the brake fluid absorbs moisture. That's why many manufacturers (not GM) recommend brake fluid flushing every two years for cars in normal daily service. If the brake fluid looks like day old coffee you can figure it's been there for years... maybe decades... and maybe it's the original St. Louis fill.

As a minimum get the caliper rebuild, siphon out the MC reservoir, clean out any sludge in the bottom, then bleed about a quart of DOT 4 through the system.

If you decide to rebuild all the hydraulic components now, it would be a good idea to switch to DOT 5 silicone fluid, but all the components have to be assembled with DOT 5 and the lines thoroughly flushed out with denatured alcohol and thoroughly dried. Some vendors will not assemble components with DOT 5. You'll have to find one who does or do it yourself.

DOT 5 does not absorb moisture, so periodic flushing is usually not required, and there will be no internal corrosion.

Duke

[Steven B.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Craig, welcome to NCRS. There are many folks with knowledge on the TDB and you will learn a lot. I have a '77 I ordered new and a '78 SA my dad and I ordered new and my goal is to keep all of the original hard parts on the cars I can. Years ago I had my '77 calipers rebuilt by Vette Brakes and a few weeks ago my '78 calipers rebuilt by LoneStar. So far I am satisfied with each. IF you want to keep your originals that came on the car and not just correct numbers I would tell the rebuilder to be certain to rebuild your originals and return them to you. If you don't you likely will not get your calipers. As for hoses, no matter what they look like if original replace them. I just pulled my '78 hoses and replaced with new ones but I kept the originals for documentation. As Duke said rebuild everything! Have fun! Steve

[Michael D.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

...If one caliper is leaking the others and the master cylinder may not be far behind...

I agree. Time to look at the entire system.

[Craig J.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Thanks for all the info. The master was replaced as it looks very fresh, so I think that's okay. And yes, I'm going to service/replace both front calipers. Life has enough excitement...why add failed brakes to the list?

I've used DOT5 in other vehicles, but I'm going to stay with DOT 4 for the time being.

Has anyone purchased calipers from Duntov? They say you can request a year-specific part number for their rebuilds...IIRC it was something like $340 for the two fronts, black powder coat, correct part numbers, and shipping. Thanks!

[Craig J.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Steve, thanks for the welcome. Your C3s sound nice! Regarding brake lines, where did you get your replacements? Are they made in the US or are they all out of China now?

Craig, welcome to NCRS. There are many folks with knowledge on the TDB and you will learn a lot. I have a '77 I ordered new and a '78 SA my dad and I ordered new and my goal is to keep all of the original hard parts on the cars I can. Years ago I had my '77 calipers rebuilt by Vette Brakes and a few weeks ago my '78 calipers rebuilt by LoneStar. So far I am satisfied with each. IF you want to keep your originals that came on the car and not just correct numbers I would tell the rebuilder to be certain to rebuild your originals and return them to you. If you don't you likely will not get your calipers. As for hoses, no matter what they look like if original replace them. I just pulled my '78 hoses and replaced with new ones but I kept the originals for documentation. As Duke said rebuild everything! Have fun! Steve

[Craig J.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Thanks Duke, I'm planning on bleeding the entire system. Since the master cylinder was replace sometime recently (it is still grey, with just a hint of rusting), hopefully the fluid won't be too hideous looking. Regardless, I'll use the vacuum pump and remove the fluid then let flush the entire system with DOT 4. I'm not planning on swapping out the rest of the system at this time, but will consider DOT5 if I do refresh the entire system.

If one caliper is leaking the others and the master cylinder may not be far behind. These leaks occur due to internal corrosion as the brake fluid absorbs moisture. That's why many manufacturers (not GM) recommend brake fluid flushing every two years for cars in normal daily service. If the brake fluid looks like day old coffee you can figure it's been there for years... maybe decades... and maybe it's the original St. Louis fill.

As a minimum get the caliper rebuild, siphon out the MC reservoir, clean out any sludge in the bottom, then bleed about a quart of DOT 4 through the system.

If you decide to rebuild all the hydraulic components now, it would be a good idea to switch to DOT 5 silicone fluid, but all the components have to be assembled with DOT 5 and the lines thoroughly flushed out with denatured alcohol and thoroughly dried. Some vendors will not assemble componets with DOT 5. You'll have to find one who does or do it yourself.

DOT 5 does not absorb moisture, so periodic flushing is usually not required, and there will be no internal corrosion.

Duke

[Timothy B.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Craig,

Double check the correct caliper part numbers in the archives, I think they should begin with 547 for your 1977 Corvette. If I am correct, 546 casting is 1965 to early 67 then 545 later 1967 through 1972-73 then 547 castings to 1982.

[Craig J.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Thanks Tim. I'll verify and see what's valid.

Isn't there a NCRS reference book that lists part numbers for specific model years? I probably need to add that to my list. Already have the Assembly, Chassis service, and Electrical diagnostic manuals.

[Timothy B.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Craig, I can't answer your question but I can tell you for sure that information is in the archives.

[Craig J.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

I got curious and checked the driver-side front caliper. Could have sworn it was a Delco Moraine, but surprise, surprise, it was "SSBC DB1081C" for the outer and "SSBC DB1081D" for the inner half. I'm guessing these would be from the Stainless Steel Brake Company? Plus I really gave it a good examination, and it looks as if it is weeping brake fluid too.

Regarding the passenger front caliper, it shows 5473735 Delco Moraine for the inner half and 5452273 for the outer half. Looks like both front calipers are replacements and they may also be sleeved (SSBC one should be fine). I'll have time tomorrow to disassemble them and see what shape they are in.

Anyone ever use the caliper rebuild kits from NAPA?

Regarding brake pads, some posts here reference the Delco 17D8 pads as a good choice. Any other suggestions for pad selection would be welcome. Thank you.

[Patrick H.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

I got curious and checked the driver-side front caliper. Could have sworn it was a Delco Moraine, but surprise, surprise, it was "SSBC DB1081C" for the outer and "SSBC DB1081D" for the inner half. I'm guessing these would be from the Stainless Steel Brake Company? Plus I really gave it a good examination, and it looks as if it is weeping brake fluid too.

Regarding the passenger front caliper, it shows 5473735 Delco Moraine for the inner half and 5452273 for the outer half. Looks like both front calipers are replacements and they may also be sleeved (SSBC one should be fine). I'll have time tomorrow to disassemble them and see what shape they are in.

Anyone ever use the caliper rebuild kits from NAPA?

Regarding brake pads, some posts here reference the Delco 17D8 pads as a good choice. Any other suggestions for pad selection would be welcome. Thank you.

Since you have resleeved units (as I suspected you would) you can just put in new seals and pistons (which whill probably be corroded and need it). However, I find that for the price of seals, pistons, etc it's easier to let the rebuild places do them since it's only a few dollars more. In your case since all 4 have been replaced I'd just buy 4 new ones from Lonestar and send yours back as cores. Get the new ones in black for a more correct color. Oh, and I'd guarantee Duntov Motors just resells someone else's units. They would not be on my shourt list for sources.

[Joe L.]

Re: New Owner and Member - C3 Brake Questions

Craig,

Double check the correct caliper part numbers in the archives, I think they should begin with 547 for your 1977 Corvette. If I am correct, 546 casting is 1965 to early 67 then 545 later 1967 through 1972-73 then 547 castings to 1982.

Timothy------


This is correct.