Nitrogen...

[Leif A.]

I've been in the retail automobile business for 30 years and over the last several years many manufacturers are installing TPM's (tire pressure monitors) on their cars wheels. These sensors are extremely sensitive, to the tune of only 2-3 lbs of air difference. Initially, we saw many of our customers coming back to us to either have their air pressure checked, topped off, or TPM reset. What we ultimately did, was have nitrogen tanks installed at the dealership and every new and pre-owned cars' tires are filled to spec with nitrogen before delivery. Additionally, nitrogen is available for all service customers. Why do I bring this up...because I have nitrogen in all my vehicles including my '67 Corvette and my Big Dog Mastiff bike. We don't get to use our "toys" as much as we want and tire pressure will deteriorate over time. The great thing about nitrogen is that it maintains a steady PSI in all your tires...not affected by temperature either ambient or actual. Sure saves having to stop at the local gas station to fill tires every time you go for a ride. Many dealerships and large tire stores now have nitrogen available. A nominal one time charge sure saves a lot of hassle. Just thought I'd pass that tidbit along.

[Michael W.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Biggest scam of the decade. Best do some research.

[Terry M.]

Re: Nitrogen...

I've been in the retail automobile business for 30 years and over the last several years many manufacturers are installing TPM's (tire pressure monitors) on their cars wheels. These sensors are extremely sensitive, to the tune of only 2-3 lbs of air difference. Initially, we saw many of our customers coming back to us to either have their air pressure checked, topped off, or TPM reset. What we ultimately did, was have nitrogen tanks installed at the dealership and every new and pre-owned cars' tires are filled to spec with nitrogen before delivery. Additionally, nitrogen is available for all service customers. Why do I bring this up...because I have nitrogen in all my vehicles including my '67 Corvette and my Big Dog Mastiff bike. We don't get to use our "toys" as much as we want and tire pressure will deteriorate over time. The great thing about nitrogen is that it maintains a steady PSI in all your tires...not affected by temperature either ambient or actual. Sure saves having to stop at the local gas station to fill tires every time you go for a ride. Many dealerships and large tire stores now have nitrogen available. A nominal one time charge sure saves a lot of hassle. Just thought I'd pass that tidbit along.

Leif,
If you could prove the bolded statement a M Jacques Charles would roll over in his grave. There is an argument to be made for Nitrogen deterring internal deterioration of tires for those of us who keep them for 40+ years, but beyond that Nitrogen for tires is a money maker for shops that charge for it. Please tell me you offer it to your customers for free.

[Leif A.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Leif,If you could prove the bolded statement a M Jacques Charles would roll over in his grave. There is an argument to be made for Nitrogen deterring internal deterioration of tires for those of us who keep them for 40+ years, but beyond that Nitrogen for tires is a money maker for shops that charge for it. Please tell me you offer it to your customers for free.

Gentlemen,The only proof I can offer for my earlier statements are that once we began filling customers tires with nitrogen the incidents of customers calling in or stopping in complaining about their TPM lights coming on virtually disappeared overnight. As for my own personal experience, I still check my tires, on all my vehicles, on a regular basis (winter, summer, before driving, after driving) and the tire pressure maintains a consistent reading. I would suggest not knocking it until you try it. And yes, Terry, we do this as a courtesy for our customers and they are genuinely thankful.

[Larry M.]

[John D.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Here's what GM has to say...GM's Position on the Use of Nitrogen Gas in TiresGeneral Motors does not oppose the use of purified nitrogen as an inflation gas for tires. We expect the theoretical benefits to be reduced in practical use due to the lack of an existing infrastructure to continuously facilitate inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen. Even occasional inflation with compressed atmospheric air will negate many of the theoretical benefits. Given those theoretical benefits, practical limitations, and the robust design of GM original equipment TPC tires, the realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal

[Edward J.]

Re: Nitrogen...

I am taking sides with Leaf on nitrogen for tires, My reason is constant stable pressure means more to some people than better mileage or longer tire life, Its seems that pulling in to a gas station to and asking for the air to be checked in your tires is long gone. and I Myself service cars for a living, and see deflated tires is more common than ever, Our cars have much longer service intervals which gives the tires a chance to loss air and here in the Northeast with the temp. swings its even a bigger problem. It seems that people cannot bothered these days. and that's a good enough reason just for those type of people. For us corvette owners it may not mean as much. Take a approach and look at it from another view point how many of your wife's have ever put air into a tire?? Good question, so there may be some good points and the bad is cost.

[Joe L.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Here's what GM has to say...GM's Position on the Use of Nitrogen Gas in TiresGeneral Motors does not oppose the use of purified nitrogen as an inflation gas for tires. We expect the theoretical benefits to be reduced in practical use due to the lack of an existing infrastructure to continuously facilitate inflating tires with nearly pure nitrogen. Even occasional inflation with compressed atmospheric air will negate many of the theoretical benefits. Given those theoretical benefits, practical limitations, and the robust design of GM original equipment TPC tires, the realized benefits to our customer of inflating their tires with purified nitrogen are expected to be minimal

John------


I am in 100% agreement with everything GM says in this statement.

[Michael W.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Gentlemen,The only proof I can offer for my earlier statements are that once we began filling customers tires with nitrogen the incidents of customers calling in or stopping in complaining about their TPM lights coming on virtually disappeared overnight. As for my own personal experience, I still check my tires, on all my vehicles, on a regular basis (winter, summer, before driving, after driving) and the tire pressure maintains a consistent reading. I would suggest not knocking it until you try it. And yes, Terry, we do this as a courtesy for our customers and they are genuinely thankful.

Leif-

This an old topic that has been beaten to death years ago. We've all tried it. The science behind nitrogen in tires is generally 'bad' science.

Nitrogen expands/contracts at the same rate as air which is 78% nitrogen anyway. If nitrogen were to actually expand at a lesser rate, we'd all be driving with under inflated tires on the highway since tires pressures are set when cold. This is the complete opposite of what nitrogen is supposed to accomplish.

The difference in molecular size between oxygen and nitrogen is so minuscule that it fails the test as to why tires would lose pressure at a lower rate when filled with nitrogen. There's nothing magical about the rubber in tires that means it would allow oxygen to pass but not nitrogen. If the tires did act as filters and let only the oxygen out, the remaining gas inside would soon be pure nitrogen and the leakage would automatically stop.

Rubber tires don't deteriorate with exposure to moisture from the inside or out- so this is a moot point.

Any responsible tire shop will have a properly maintained air compressor system that will be drained of excessive moisture. Modern wheels and TPM's are well manufactured to resist typical humidity levels that might occur.


Like many things in today's world this is a marketeer's perfect wet dream solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

I took my local tire shop to task over the dubious ecological promises made on this sign

[Donald O.]

Re: Nitrogen...

But Mikey, I read it on the internet. Maybe he talks his er customers into electric water pumps too for free horsepower.

[Leif A.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Leif-This an old topic that has been beaten to death years ago. We've all tried it. The science behind nitrogen in tires is generally 'bad' science. Nitrogen expands/contracts at the same rate as air which is 78% nitrogen anyway. If nitrogen were to actually expand at a lesser rate, we'd all be driving with under inflated tires on the highway since tires pressures are set when cold. This is the complete opposite of what nitrogen is supposed to accomplish.The difference in molecular size between oxygen and nitrogen is so minuscule that it fails the test as to why tires would lose pressure at a lower rate when filled with nitrogen. There's nothing magical about the rubber in tires that means it would allow oxygen to pass but not nitrogen. If the tires did act as filters and let only the oxygen out, the remaining gas inside would soon be pure nitrogen and the leakage would automatically stop. Rubber tires don't deteriorate with exposure to moisture from the inside or out- so this is a moot point.Any responsible tire shop will have a properly maintained air compressor system that will be drained of excessive moisture. Modern wheels and TPM's are well manufactured to resist typical humidity levels that might occur.Like many things in today's world this is a marketeer's perfect wet dream solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I took my local tire shop to task over the dubious ecological promises made on this sign

Michael,I would think the claims on that sign are dubious at best. As far as moisture is concerned, that was never part of my original post. All I know, for a fact, is that my tires stay properly inflated with nitrogen, whereas with regular air, I was having to add or delete air depending on temperature swings. My customers obtain the same results. I'm not a scientist nor claim to be one...I only know what works for me (and, my customers) and I thought it might work for others...

[Joe L.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Michael,I would think the claims on that sign are dubious at best. As far as moisture is concerned, that was never part of my original post. All I know, for a fact, is that my tires stay properly inflated with nitrogen, whereas with regular air, I was having to add or delete air depending on temperature swings. My customers obtain the same results. I'm not a scientist nor claim to be one...I only know what works for me (and, my customers) and I thought it might work for others...

Leif------


Keep in mind that just because others, including myself, have contradictory opinions on nitrogen inflation for tires, that does not mean that you should not have submitted your original post. You were simply reporting relative to your experience and business practices. That's a fine and appropriate thing to do and it stimulated further discussion and information. Contradictory opinions or information should never discourage folks from posting.

[Paul H.]

Re: Nitrogen...

My personal experience with nitrogen is that it makes little to no difference in the rate of deflation. I used my C6 Z06 as my test bed. Regular air in the front tires and nitrogen in the rears. Virtually identical as far as having to add air over a 1 year period. Save your money.

[Stephen L.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Paul, that is the best test for and against using nitrogen or air and the associated costs.

[Edward J.]

Re: Nitrogen...

Paul, There are some pit falls to Automotive tires and there pressures, and loss of pressure due to small leaks over time has never changed, I think that corvettes really don't benefit all that much from nitrogen unless its a daily driver. The other side of the coin is as I say is its made for those people who drive there cars for a long period of time before there next service, as there just are not many people that check there pressure on a regular basis.