Proof Of Ownership

[Mark S.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Gary: First of all, the intial documents were accepted by the chapter judging chair and the owner was given an okay to have his Corvette judged, The decision was then reversed. We then were going provide a sworn affidavit showing valid proof of ownership of this Corvette and we were turned down on this. In all my readings of the NCRS judging guidelines the term "Proof Of Ownership" is used to have a Corvette judged. A title may be one form of proof of ownership; but there are also other ways of showing proof of ownership. This particular Corvette is a very low mileage unrestored 1967 Corvette, which I believe that the judges would be excited to see. What happened to the NCRS philosophy that the owner get the benefit of the doubt? In all my years as a supporting active NCRS member, I am truly saddend by the treatment that we have received on this!

[John W.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Mark,

Were the following specific documents furnished:
- Notarized Bill of Sale from the owner listed on the title to the Car Dealer who wants to register the car?
- Dealer Incorporation or State approved Dealer paperwork ?
- Paperwork listing the person who wants to register the car as an owner or part owner of the Car Dealer ?
- Proof of Insurance with the Car VIN listed in the name of the Car owner or Dealer ?

These are not new rules for dealers. These rules have been in place for many years as Dick Whittington said.

An "open" title is not proof of ownership.

Gary
....

[Dick W.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

[QUOTE=Gary Chesnut (5895);704962]Mark,

Were the following specific documents furnished:
- Notarized Bill of Sale from the owner listed on the title to the Car Dealer who wants to register the car?
- Dealer Incorporation or State approved Dealer paperwork ?
- Paperwork listing the person who wants to register the car as an owner or part owner of the Car Dealer ?
- Proof of Insurance with the Car VIN listed in the name of the Car owner or Dealer ?

These are not new rules for dealers. These rules have been in place for many years as Dick Whittington said.

An "open" title is not proof of ownership.

Gary
....[/QUOTE

Gary in some/most states, the dealer liability policy does not list covered vehicles by VIN, just states something like "vehicles in inventory or in possession" Do not have a copy of insurance policy when I had dealer license

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

For an upcoming Regional Meet we were told that we had to have a valid title with the Corvette owner's name on it, for it to be considered for judging. Has something changed? In my mind, proof of ownership can take on numerous forms. We had a title from with the previous owner's name; where the new car owner tranfer had not taken place yet. In lieu of that, we were ready to supply an affidavit, signed and notorized; however, we were turned down. Thanks in advance for the help! Sincerely, Mark

So all you had was a open title & a notarized bill of sale? If so I don't think that will fly. Open titles are not legal in mist states even for dealers.

[Bill M.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

If I remember correctly this ownership proof all started because some guy from long island brought a car carrier load of cars to Florida for judging in the late 80's and then put them all up for sale with awards

[David B.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

NCRS does not accept open titles as proof of ownership. We will deal with licensed dealers, but the title must be filled out with the seller's and buyer's info. Affidavit and an open title is still an open title. Nothing has changed on our ownership requirement. If a car slipped thru at a previous event, it was a mistake. Dave

[Mark S.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Dave: Thank you for your reponse! Your definition of ownership is tighter than mine. To prevent problems in the future, this probably needs to be spelled out in more detail in the judging manual. Specifics in the manual could reference what specific paperwork is necessary; and what paperwork would be rejected. In addition to this, reference to the specifics of "Proof Of Ownership" could be referenced in in your "Judging Chairman's Message" column in the Restorer. Finally, we have a new chapter judging chair that may not have been versed in all these specifics. Earlier intervention from the top may have helped some of the frustrations and feelings encountered with this unfortunate process that we went through. See you at the Regional! Sincerely, Mark

[Dick W.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

So all you had was a open title & a notarized bill of sale? If so I don't think that will fly. Open titles are not legal in mist states even for dealers.

Possession of an open title is a felony in some states. At a minimum a nice little fine. Don't ask me about the book of open titles that a DMV inspector caught me with

[Mark S.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Dick: There were discrepancies with 11 other owners on their paperwork according to the chapter judging chair, as stated above. Ours was not the only discrepancy. Now according to my math, 12 discrepancies out of 40+ flight cars carries about a 25%+ error rate. That would be a shade out of a six sigma bell curve. That is why I suggested a little more definitive information on Proof Of Ownership paperwork in the judging manual. This should help owners in their preparation for judging and help prevent episodes like we experienced. All the best! Mark

[James G.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

A good friend in Chicago bought a very low mile car in 2008. Its title was an old used car Dealer title dated 1973. The three owners since then had all shown the car with great awards. The shows were NCRS and another well known event. Before my friend could have the car judged, he had to go back to each owner and get them to title the car, then sign off to the next owner all the way up to today. Yes, each of the three states collected the sales tax if it applied. Took four months of effort, but now everyone is happy. Many collectors in the past don't title their cars, but today insurance companies won't insure without a fresh current title in your name. Oh yea, I forgot Connenicut does have titles.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Possession of an open title is a felony in some states. At a minimum a nice little fine. Don't ask me about the book of open titles that a DMV inspector caught me with

It's all about the state sales tax BABY

[Rick A.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

YEs, on both sides of "the aisle". $$$$$$ cars and new owners don't want to pay for the privilege of "owning the car"

[Dick W.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

It's all about the state sales tax BABY

I don't disagree with you at all Kenneth. Been there and done that. They finally made dealers licenses so expensive, and such a hassle for a small dealer, it is not worth it. I gave them up.

[Martin M.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Auto sales between private parties here in NV are not subject to a sales tax. You pay if a dealer is involved.

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Proof Of Ownership

Auto sales between private parties here in NV are not subject to a sales tax. You pay if a dealer is involved.

Same here in AZ. including climate conditions.