Turbo Jet ?

[Dale C.]

Anybody know the story on why the BB is called a TURBO-JET? I don't see a turbo or a jet. Was this a marketing thing?
Dale

[Larry M.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Anybody know the story on why the BB is called a TURBO-JET? I don't see a turbo or a jet. Was this a marketing thing?
Dale

Marketing

Olds had "Rocket", MOPAR had "Commando and Firedome" etc.

Larry

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Anybody know the story on why the BB is called a TURBO-JET? I don't see a turbo or a jet. Was this a marketing thing?
Dale

Dale-----


Well, the small block was called "Turbo-Fire" and, while I may be mistaken, I think the 348/409 was called "Turbo-Thrust". So, I guess they felt they needed to come up with something "Turbo".

[Duke W.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

That was back in the early "jet age" days of turbojet (and turboprop) powered aircraft. Military jets prolilferated beginning in the late forties, and the commercial jet age began ten years later. PanAm placed Boeing 707 aircraft in transatlanctic service in 1958, and I think American Airlines was first to place 707s in transcontinental service in 1960.

Harley Earl, in particular, and Bill Mitchell loved aircraft designs - thus the fins. Space was the "new frontier", (but Oldsmobile was already using "Rocket V-8"), and the marketing guys followed their lead.

Yeah, they got carried away... don't they always...?

Duke

[Mike E.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Yeah, they got carried away... don't they always...?

Duke

In the mid-eighties they called the throttle body FI "Crossfire Injection". I always thought that sounded more like an engine malfunction. Like "Stand back kids, that engine could crossfire any time now".

Mike

[Duke W.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Me too. "Crossfire" historically refers to ignition system faults. I recall that Dave McLellan in his book regetted that system both due to its technical faults and the dumb name.

GM (still in their NIH syndrome years) resisted the move to port fuel injection and Dave was barred from going outside to suppliers like Bosch for a port fuel injection system. GM came up with the half-baked TBI as a lower cost alternative to port injection, but TBI only slightly helped the uneven fuel distribution problems of a carburetor/manifold, so emissions were worse than port injection.

It was emissions that finally forced GM to throw in the towel on TBI and go with port injection, and I recall that TBI was only around for no more than about five to six years.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Me too. "Crossfire" historically refers to ignition system faults. I recall that Dave McLellan in his book regetted that system both due to its technical faults and the dumb name.

GM (still in their NIH syndrome years) resisted the move to port fuel injection and Dave was barred from going outside to suppliers like Bosch for a port fuel injection system. GM came up with the half-baked TBI as a lower cost alternative to port injection, but TBI only slightly helped the uneven fuel distribution problems of a carburetor/manifold, so emissions were worse than port injection.

It was emissions that finally forced GM to throw in the towel on TBI and go with port injection, and I recall that TBI was only around for no more than about five to six years.

Duke

Duke------


As far as Corvettes go, TBI was only used for 2 model years, 1982 and 1984. However, it was used for quite a few more years in other GM platforms. I believe Cadillac used a version as early as the mid-70's and continued to use it through 1989.

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Actually, the thing that always bothered me about the term "TurboJet" as applied to Chevrolet engines is that it represents an actual "misnomer". In the case of "TurboFire" and "TurboThrust", those are relatively "vague" terms that have no other connotation. However, "Turbojet" is a specific term for a specific type of jet engine and the Chevrolet big block is certainly no jet engine. So, from the very beginning that term always bothered me as applied to a reciprocating automotive engine.

By the way, a turbojet engine is a type of jet engine sometimes referred to as a "pure jet". It has no fan which almost all modern jet engines do have. Airlines converted to fan jets in the mid to late 60's. The military took longer but today most military engines are fan jets, too. Fan jets produce most their thrust from the fan and are much more fuel efficient than turbojets which produce all of their thrust through the jet engine. However, turbojets are generally capable of somewhat higher speeds.

Here's a decidedly off-topic trivia question: virtually all aircraft equipped with fan jets use a FORWARD fan. Only one that I know of ever used a REAR fan. Does anyone know what it was?

[Larry M.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Chevrolet marketed the straight six as 'Turbo-Thrift'; and the Corvair engine as 'Turbo-Air'.

Someone at Chevy was definitely on a turbo kick.

[Larry M.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Here's a decidedly off-topic trivia question: virtually all aircraft equipped with fan jets use a FORWARD fan. Only one that I know of ever used a REAR fan. Does anyone know what it was?

Since that format is so unusual, perhaps it was a design from very early in jet engine development. Was it the Messerschmitt ME 262?

[Duke W.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Here's a decidedly off-topic trivia question: virtually all aircraft equipped with fan jets use a FORWARD fan. Only one that I know of ever used a REAR fan. Does anyone know what it was?

The UDF (unducted fan) jet was all the rage in the early nineties. Most of the thrust came from rear mounted, small diameter, contra-rotating external "fans" with scimitar shaped blades - six or seven on each of the contra-rotating "fans". It was a sort of "super" turboprop.

I remember seeing a 727 take off from Long Beach airport with a UDF in place of one of the side mounted jets.

Alas, insoluble noise and vibration problems quicky rendered the UDF to a footnote in aviation history.

Duke

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Since that format is so unusual, perhaps it was a design from very early in jet engine development. Was it the Messerschmitt ME 262?

Larry------

I don't know much about the ME 262. However, the only aircraft that I know of that ever used a fan jet with a REAR fan was the Convair 990. That aircraft used the General Electric CJ-805-23.

[Paul O.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Here are some photos of a CJ805-23 a variant of a J-79 used on F-4 Phantom B-58 Hustlers and A-5 Vigilante and most likely other aircraft I am not familiar with. Plus UDF GE-36 engine on an MD-80 and a 727 test bed aircraft.

[Joe L.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Here are some photos of a CJ805-23 a variant of a J-79 used on F-4 Phantom B-58 Hustlers and A-5 Vigilante and most likely other aircraft I am not familiar with. Plus UDF GE-36 engine on an MD-80 and a 727 test bed aircraft.

Paul------

Yes, the J-79 was used on quite a few military aircraft. Another was the F-104.

The CJ-805 was only used on 2 commercial aircraft I know of, though. The first was the Convair 880, but without aft fan. The other was, of course, the Convair 990. Those half-moon shaped ducts towards the rear of the engine you picture must be the intakes for the aft fan. I always wondered how airflow was directed to the aft fan. Now I know.

[Duke W.]

Re: Turbo Jet ?

Paul------

Yes, the J-79 was used on quite a few military aircraft. Another was the F-104.

... the Navy's F11F Tiger and Art Aafron's "Green Monster" LSR car - assembled from "surplus" parts.

Duke