Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

[Patrick H.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

There is a standing joke (with some level of truth) -- that there are those who have received "the hat" strictly on Judging Seminars.

And a similar one that some have received it just doing Ops judging.

I did not know that MJ hats "might" be given out if you're within 15 points of getting your 100. I know that I was over by 15 points or so when I received mine in 2007, but was likely within 15 at the 2004 Windsor event. And, since you can't receive a black hat and a red hat at the same event, my red hat waits until 2011 or so.

Patrick

[Steven S.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

This is in deed a great way to see where you are. I have a fold full of all of the meets and where I have kept track through the years. As Terry said, I decide to see how fast I could get the hat. Started in July and ended that year with level 3, next year was level 7. Really turned it on after that. after 100 level, hit 200 next year and 300 2 years after that. Took 3 years or so after that to get to 400. Here in the midwest, there are for sure more opportunities to gain points that are close to home, but to fast track it, you need to travel all over. At the time I was doing it, my job was taking me all over, so plane tickets were a none issue.

[Roy S.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Guys, It is true in the past if a member was registered for the national convention and was within 15 points of the Master Hat according to then completed records. He received a hat at the convention. Because the hat is passed out Monday night before the judging. There are always two to three events minimum that have not been recorded at the time of the convention, usually a regional and at least two chapters. That could be 13 points not recorded and a member could earn 15 so you could have a 28 point swing as an example when points catch up. I did not and do not think it was fair to have someone earn a hat at the convention and wait to receive it when they are passed out before the judging. As the system gets better and more accurate we could know going in exactly how many points someone is missing and exactly how many they are scheduled to earn. That will depend on input at this point. I can tell you with three regionals in a 9 week period before the convention it was often hard to keep it accurate going in when you were traveling to each event and preparing for the national at the same time. The shared work load may make that process simpler, but it still depends on timely accurate input.

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Seems there are more then one way to get to 100 or 500 point hat besides just judging Corvettes. When did this hat award begin? I heard you can attend seminars and judging schools that cover any year Corvette to gain points. The hat don't distinguish if that person is knowledgeable on a particular year Corvette. So with out having to ask some one what year that judge covers how do you know, or can they cover any year having a 100 to 500 point hat?
I believe this is a good idea (hats) so that a new person can go to them for questions.
This question may get me in trouble but it would seem to me that a person wearing a 500 point hat could judge (SAY) 57 corvette in ten minutes with out reading the JM. I know many older members that can and they don't have one point on their hat.!
Now remember I'm just asking what I dont know as to how it works.

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Seems there are more then one way to get to 100 or 500 point hat besides just judging Corvettes. When did this hat award begin? I heard you can attend seminars and judging schools that cover any year Corvette to gain points. The hat don't distinguish if that person is knowledgeable on a particular year Corvette. So with out having to ask some one what year that judge covers how do you know, or can they cover any year having a 100 to 500 point hat?
I believe this is a good idea (hats) so that a new person can go to them for questions.
This question may get me in trouble but it would seem to me that a person wearing a 500 point hat could judge (SAY) 57 corvette in ten minutes with out reading the JM. I know many older members that can and they don't have one point on their hat.!
Now remember I'm just asking what I dont know as to how it works.

Roy -- one gets the first hat (black) at 100 Level (that is 1000 points). I'm not sure if one gets a hat for every 100 Level after that, but the highest level recognized is 400 level, so no one has a 500 level hat. Edit add: Sorry for a mistake in the numbers. Master hat is Level 10 which equals 100 points.

There is a red hat for those folks who have enough judging points to reach 100 level and have also "put a car through the system." That is they owned a Corvette that got either the Mark of Excellence (Duntoiv, McLellan, or Hill) Award or the Chevrolet Bowtie Award while in their ownership.

There is also an orange hat (Duchies pay attention) for the Instructors at the three-day Judging Retreat that is put on every couple of years. So far that retreat has been held in Dallas.

Yes, it is true that one can gain enough points to get a black hat without ever judging a Corvette -- although I am not sure that anyone has ever done it, and it would take a long time. Tabulators and Team Leaders also get judging points for their work during the events, but I would suggest to you that they earn those points just as much as those who actually judge the cars.

And you are right -- there is no way to figure out if a person earned the hat by judging 1957 Corvettes or 1987 Corvettes, or Exterior or Interior or Operations. Now that this system is getting more computerized NCRS does have records of the position one filled to get the points so some day it may be possible to distinguish how the points were earned, but whether that ever leads to a separate symbol for the means of earning those points is a whole other matter. And who could keep track of all those colors and symbols anyway?

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Roy -- one gets the first hat (black) at 100 Level (that is 1000 points). I'm not sure if one gets a hat for every 100 Level after that, but the highest level recognized is 400 level, so no one has a 500 level hat.

There is a red hat for those folks who have enough judging points to reach 100 level and have also "put a car through the system." That is they owned a Corvette that got either the Mark of Excellence (Duntoiv, McLellan, or Hill) Award or the Chevrolet Bowtie Award while in their ownership.

There is also an orange hat (Duchies pay attention) for the Instructors at the three-day Judging Retreat that is put on every couple of years. So far that retreat has been held in Dallas.

Yes, it is true that one can gain enough points to get a black hat without ever judging a Corvette -- although I am not sure that anyone has ever done it, and it would take a long time. Tabulators and Team Leaders also get judging points for their work during the events, but I would suggest to you that they earn those points just as much as those who actually judge the cars.

And you are right -- there is no way to figure out if a person earned the hat by judging 1957 Corvettes or 1987 Corvettes, or Exterior or Interior or Operations. Now that this system is getting more computerized NCRS does have records of the position one filled to get the points so some day it may be possible to distinguish how the points were earned, but whether that ever leads to a separate symbol for the means of earning those points is a whole other matter. And who could keep track of all those colors and symbols anyway?

Terry thanks! I dint know how one gets a hat . All great programs but again it would be nice to know (which) year or years a judge having a hat has the best knowledge just by putting the year he known's the best on the hat (53 or 59 or 74 and so on) would seem easy to do . Because the average person would assume a master judge would know about any year Corvette.
It would also be nice to know the judge judging your Corvette owns one.

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Terry thanks! I dint know how one gets a hat . All great programs but again it would be nice to know (which) year or years a judge having a hat has the best knowledge just by putting the year he known's the best on the hat (53 or 59 or 74 and so on) would seem easy to do . Because the average person would assume a master judge would know about any year Corvette.
It would also be nice to know the judge judging your Corvette owns one.

roy,

I made a mistake in my post to you. Master hat comes at Level 10 whi8ch equals 100 points. Now you know only one of the reasons I have no tabulator points.

I agree it would be nice to know all that about the person who is judging yoru car, and many people are justly proud of the hats they have earned -- but then you have folks like me who never wear a hat. I have stacks and stacks of them here at home, but they are almost never on my head.

I do wear a hat slightly more often than I wear a tie, however. That is a very inside joke.

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

roy,

I made a mistake in my post to you. Master hat comes at Level 10 whi8ch equals 100 points. Now you know only one of the reasons I have no tabulator points.

I agree it would be nice to know all that about the person who is judging yoru car, and many people are justly proud of the hats they have earned -- but then you have folks like me who never wear a hat. I have stacks and stacks of them here at home, but they are almost never on my head.

I do wear a hat slightly more often than I wear a tie, however. That is a very inside joke.

Any person that has achieved a black or red hat should be proud and I respect that as I see you have 400 points. It was just a thought that a Judge should show what year they specialize in that's all.

[Dennis C.]

Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Roy, You make a good and valid point about knowing what year/s or area: Ops, Int, Ext, Mech, Chassis. It would be great to know exactly how each judge fit into the mix.

And that thought was mentioned during the early years of the Judging Recognition Program. Like, how do we know this guy or gal is qualified to judge what year or what area?

In the beginning, I did the record keeping of judges by hand with a pencil on a piece of paper. Trying to keep track of more than who judged and where was more than I could wrap my tiny brain around.

I did worry, for a while, that some might sign up for judging in classes that they did not really qualify in. After a short period of time, I was convinced that, almost without exception, no judge really tried to sign up in a class they were not qualified to judge. That helped me worry much less about keeping track of every tiny detail. Like, he judged a 54 - so, can he judge a 55? It really all seemed to work itself out quite well.

Flawless - doubtfull... But, it has seemed to work pretty well for quite a few years.

And, I still contend, NCRS has the best, most comprehensive automotive judging system in place today, bar none.

I thank the members that volunteer to judge, learn by doing so, attend judging schools, and continue to set and raise the standard for others to attempt to achieve.

Best, Dennis

[Roy B.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Dennis
I think your into C1 60 to 62 BB,tankers and that is your thing, and I would think your good at it .That's because I know you. What other years do you know the best? That's what I mean I dont know and would guess many dont know. I just have to say again that it would be nice to know what year a 100 or 400 point judge is best at by placeing the years on a judges hat.

[John W.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Dennis,

For the first time ever we have the capability to capture all of that data and we are. The problem is that in the Chapter meets we often judge across the lines of demarcation. We might judge Interior on 53 -62, or even Interior and Exterior on multiple years.

We have asked that the Judging Chairmen use their discretion in entering the data. If you have judges doing 53 - 62 cars, but the majority of the cars are 56 - 57 then assign that as the area judged.

Some time down the road we will have collected enough dependable information to further refine what we do with the information that we have.

[Rob M.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

If your wife, children/step children or significant other earn points they will need to create a profile here on the Tech Board in order to track them.

Have them go to this link to complete the TDB Registration and account Activation process:
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/register/initiate.php

If they don't show up as a relative please go to the Helpdesk and request that they be added to your account. Please remember to include your username to allow us to associate them with the proper account.

When asking us to add a relative please include email address of the new relative (when available), type of relative (spouse, significant other, child) and when the relative is a child also his/her birthday (children are allowed to join a family member as long as they are under 23).

thanks,
The TDB Helpdesk

[Jack H.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

Amen, John! At the Chapter level, the official 'Division' distinction routinely observed at Regional/National meets tends to evaporate. Cars are grouped in meet-local defined 'divisions' to balance the judging load and get the job done.

As an aside, this is frequently where NCRS members doing judging duty see logical 'disconnects' in our JG books & NTL provided Judging Guidance text. Specifically, the different treatment of parts that cross specific NTL & Corvette judging division boundaries that are treated one way with this year of cars and another way with that year of cars.

Example, AC's temp sender was common to '58-67. Some JG books state the emboss on the neck is 'upright' while other books say it's inverted. Some say the emboss reads '12 Volt' while others say '12V'.

Having harvested maybe 300 temp senders from various scrap yard cars over the years, I've seen ALL FOUR variations and haven't found rhyme/reason as to the differences based on vehicle year! Methinks there was more than ONE emboss machine and/or assy line at AC to chrun out this part that was made in the millions of units/annum and the differences result from that vs. what's 'correct/original' to a Corvette...

But, that's the way our system is!

[Peter M.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

All,

The Judging Points are now turned on (see also thread https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthread.php?t=72594). Please understand that we have not been running this system for a FULL YEAR. The system will one year from now show your points as well all of the events where you earned points. Like a highway the day it starts to be constructed it is not available to to travel from one end to the other.

Thanks,

WELL DONE, John & team. Great Job !

[John D.]

Re: Judging Point Recognition UPDATE!

I think the concept is excellent. Hats off to John W. on implementation.

I see one problem however. That is the accuracy of the past judging points. This is not a slam at Roy, keeping track of judging points for upwards of 15,000 members is a huge task.

I have kept a spreadsheet of every event and judges certificate I have. The listing on my profile is over 10 points low.

As others have stated in this thread we spend a lot of money traveling to volunteer judge.

How do we get our judging points corrected???