NCRS JUDGING YJ8 vs RALLEYS

[Edward McComas]

PS

I have a window sticker for a 73 convertible, serial number 22397, that indicates that it came equipped with the YJ8 option. Of course it is a repo window sticker, and represents a car that I used to own. No, the car did not come with YJ8 wheels, I just thought it would be neat to have a window sticker that said so. Boys and girls, don't try this at home (or on the judging field).

[Jack H.]

I can help....

(1) Current '73-77 Flight Score sheet provides 16 originality points and 12 condition points for the road mounted wheels (spare tire is another issue). Then, there's another 16 originality points and 15 condition points for the companion trim rings/wheel covers. That makes a total of 59 judging points and with a 4500 point scoring system, we have 1.3% of the overall car tied up in the wheels and wheel trim.

Consider Top Flight award begins at 94% and if the rest of the car is pretty pristine, it can easily make the grade with the existing 'incorrect' wheels. Also, through in the NCRS policy of giving mileage driven bonus points to those owners who actually drive their Corvettes to/from a meet and the owner can reduce the issue of 'wrong' wheels to a non-issue.

(2) The same dilema will face the owner at NCCB/Bloomington as the general standard is pretty similar to NCRS (as built/delivered by the factory). But, there, the car stands on its own and there are no 'bonus' points for risking wear/tear by driving the car....

(3) On the issue of 'intended' vs. 'as-built', heck, I had a singer in the band in high school who wanted a '66 SB coupe with side exhaust. Production orders were closed, so her universe was what was on dealer's lots. She got her car and the dealer installed the side exhaust option for her (probably QUITE different workmanship than that of the St. Louis factory). If she was 'restoring' this car, she'd obviously opt to configure it with side exhaust.

But, this is NOT the way the car left St. Louis and there WOULD be a deduction for 'owner/dealer inspired' addition/deletion of regular production options. Hey, you gotta draw the line somewhere in terms of forming a set of standards, and that's just the way it is. We, at NCRS, do tolerate some configuration changes via our mileage driven bonus, but that's unique to NCRS--don't expect it at NCCB/Bloomington or ChevyVettefest....

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: PS

SO, if my car has been restored to the oringinal order form ,I am to expect point deduct's because they (GM) did not fill the request/order?

gregg

[Edward McComas]

PS

No, not quite. The original order form does not factor into the situation. What matters is the final form that the car was delivered in, not the dealer order form. Now, if you had an original window sticker, or an original build sheet, and that document indicates that the car was "delivered" with YJ8 wheels, you would be fine.

So far, we have not found a single original document that indicates that a 73 Vette was actually delivered with YJ8 wheels. And we have definitely looked! That does not mean that such a document does not exist, but almost 30 years have passed, and we have not seen it yet.

[Edward McComas]

Re: PS

If you think this is bad, think about those guys who own cars that were delivered from the factory in primer (no paint). NCRS policy is that those cars will receive a deduction if they have anything other than primer on them. Seems kind of silly to me, but that is the way it is.

[Harmon C.]

Re: PS

To be 100% they would need to be real 73 's and have the correct lug nuts with good paper work.

[Patrick H.]

Gregg...

Gregg,

1. Note that Bloomington and NCRS are NOT related entities. You are intermixing the two terms as if you seem to believe that the NCRS holds an annual meet in St. Charles (formerly Bloomington and others) Illinois. This is NOT the case, as that event is sanctioned by the National Corvette Ceritification Board. The points structure for each is also quite different.

2. You CAN bring your car to either event and have it judged. Just don't expect to receive full credit for the wheels and tires. There is a difference.

3. I recently purchased a set of 4 correctly dated rally rims and tires for my judged car. I'll use the rings and center caps I have. Better yet, I bought them in conjunction with a friend, and we will both use the same set for judging. It's cheaper. Be creative.

4. I HIGHLY suggest you get involved with your local Chapter if you haven't already, and attend a meet or two. Better yet, be an Observer Judge, or even Judge, and see how it really takes place before you even bring your car to a meet. I think you'll learn more than you'll believe.

Patrick

[Jack Layton]

Benchmark

Whenever an object is to be judged or evaluated there must be a "standard" or benchmark against which the object is compared or contrasted. The NCRS uses the simple benchmark of "as it came out the door". Hence the NCRS definition of a restoration is to replicate the vehicle to the exact standard as the factory on the date of it's completion. Philosophically I do not see how one could assume a different position nor misunderstand this one. Now determing exactly how certain years and models actually left that door has caused some of us concern. I can even document when in the past we have been down a wrong street. But we have never disagreed on the basic idea of what the benchmark should be. "OUT THE DOOR". The NCRS has collected and published great quanities of data defining what constitutes the "Out the Door" configuration for these vehicles. If you have a vehicle which you feel represents this "out the Door" position which is contrary to the published data then the burden of proof is with you to document your vehicle. If on the other hand you are trying to provide a persuasive argument on why the NCRS should alter it's basic benchmark to include "coulda, woulda, shoulda" vehicle configurations then you need to be advised that this event is not likely.

This is not meant as a "flame" to anyone but rather my attempt to explain for clarity my understanding of the mission of the NCRS, a group which I have supported for the past 27 years. The benchmark is extremely difficult to attain. But it is a pleasure for those who do and those who attempt it, even partially.

[George C.]

Re: PS

Gregg,

A few weeks ago I was asking and looking for information on the 1973 yellow Corvette on the front of Corvette News (Oct/Nov 1972) with YJ8's, that car was delivered with the wheels to the Tech Center for these picture and someone did drive this car as a PEP vehicle. In Corvette News it did a layout on the 1973 new model Corvette and you can see this was a driver(not a clown car) because it has the little Chevrolet decal on windshield with the numbers 3937.Also does anyone remember the TV series with Bill Bixby called The Magician. I remember the first episode(Oct 73) and he was driving a white 1973 Corvette with YJ8's.,then he began driving a white 1974 Corvette white /saddle leather interior with YJ8's with white striped tires(QRM's). Kind of like Route 66 getting all the good stuff form Chevrolet and showing it off on TV, and of course the sponser was Cevrolet Motor Division. I also have a picture of Zora standing next to a 1974 Caprice Estate Wagon and parked next to the wagon is a 1973 or 1974 Silver Corvette with a experimental hatchback and the Corvette has the YJ8's. Explain that ? Save the wave.>George

[Art A.]

Re: PS

George and Gregg; Having worked at Chevrolet Engineering from 1962 to 1985, until it was reorganized into CPC, I can tell you, without hesitation, that any photo's or brochures of Company cars should NOT be used as criteria for deciding what was PRODUCTION intent. Fleet and Photo vehicles were OFTEN changed the second they came in the garage door---especially the vehicles that Zora drove.
Most publicity vehicles were "prepped", which could include any number of non production items, by Engineering BEFORE being sent to a TV show or Magazine.

Art

[George C.]

Re: PS

Thanks Art. Do you remember that 1973 Corvette at the Tech Center ? >George

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: Benchmark

UNCLE!!!!!!!! I would like to thank everyone who replied here and off site to this subject. My intent was to make my case here, prior to getting to the event and being disappointed."OUT THE DOOR" means "OUT THE DOOR" no if's, and's, or but's, period.That's fine and very clear(crystal)to me now from all of the input left here in regard to this matter. I will be acting as an observer judge in the near future(my first)and I am looking forward to it.

Now, not to beat a dead horse, but to respond to George and his mention of the yellow 73 in the OCT/NOV 1972 Corvette News article.I have this article as well as the following which show the 73 Vette with the YJ8'S.All of these articles can be found on the www.73spot under vintage articles with the exception of one, that one is the AUG/SEPT 2002 issue of AMERICAN SPORTS CAR, published by the NCM.The other's are MOTOR TREND-JAN 73, CAR & DRIVER-DEC 73, ROAD & TRACK-MONTH YR? and finally a SALEMANS BROCHURE OF OPTIONS.I am sure there are many others.

Thanks again, but it's RALLY'S by a T K O, sorry for the pun.

All the best,
GREGG

[GREGG PLAPAS]

Re: PS

Hey George,

Here is another publication that displays a 1973 yellow coupe with the YJ8's,it may be the same car you seek,I don't really know, but it might be, could be, maybe even want to be. It is on the front cover (of all things) the VETTE VUES FACT BOOK of the 1973-1977 STINGRAY by M.F.DOBBINS. I do not own a copy of this FACT BOOK, so it may have a disclaimer on the inside to acknowledge THAT IN FACT this cover car is deceptive and it's sole purpose/use is for photographic enhancement ONLY!

GREGG

[Art A.]

Re: PS

Yes, In fact I do remember that car, I even know the guy, Les Beari (sp?), that bought the car from Zora. When Les bought it, it would have never passed NCRS "Production" standards as many of the 1973 production parts had been replaced with non 1973 parts--including the paint.

Art