I am going to look at a midyear driver that has been issued a replacement title in Ohio. At least that is what the owner is calling it. He is very upfront about it. Says the car was stolen, recovered, and restored in 1990. He bought it from the restorer in 1990 with a title that was issued by Ohio with a new vin number as any previous references were removed. A new vin plate was attached inside the door, according to the owner. Does the history of this car exclude the vast majority of potential buyers for me later if in fact I decide to buy the car? Normally I would probably pass but it is restored, a Corvette engine but not original, 4 speed, etc. and the price is around 15K. Any and all comments most appreciated. I would like as many opinions as possible. Thanks.
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Re: Replacement Title
David-----
To repeat some comments I made recently, if the frame and birdcage are corrosion damage-free, the frame is unrpaired from previous collision damage and the body not previously repaired from serious damage, you've got a winner. Don't sweat the "small stuff" like a replacement, state-issued VIN. Certainly, the state-issued VIN will reduce the attractiveness of the car to a future buyer and will, likely, reduce the price you'll be able to get. But, if the car is solid and the price is right now (which, it sounds like it is), you're never going to lose money selling it. A solid car, even with a replacement VIN, will always be attractive to SAVVY buyers.
Also, keep in mind that the laws of many states allow for the affixation of a resoration VIN tag if it's done with the approval and supervision of the state authorities. California allows it under those circumstances. Undoubtedly, you would have to present incontrovertable proof as to what the original VIN was and solid evidence as to your title to the car, but it is possible in some cases. But, I wouldn't let a purchase hinge on that possibility. Like I say, in the overall scheme of things, it's really "small stuff".In Appreciation of John Hinckley -
Re: Replacement Title
Buy it Quick! I just looked at a basket midyear for $15K!Comment
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Agree with Joe!!!!
MANY people put some sacrosanct value on the car's VIN. From an NCRS standpoint, the car is COMPLETELY judgeable with a proper, State supplied, replacement VIN tag. There may be other organizations that penalize the vehicle for past abuse of prior owners, but NOT at NCRS.... Often, VIN replacement is MANDATED by certain States where the car was involved in a theft and subsequent recovery operation--twasn't the car's fault!!!Comment
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Re: Agree with Joe!!!!
I appreciate everyon'e feedback. Just got back from looking at the car. Decent 10 year old paint, decent interior, cracked right dash pad, original radio, carpets & seat covers decent. Looks rather good even up close. Brand new white top. Dash all there but definitely tired. Bad tires. Frame looks solid. Looked under the dash as best I could and didn't notice any signs of rust near windshield. One half shaft had lost a u-joint at some point and ripped a hole in the tub. Repaired not so professionally. Also someone made a cut out above the differential/driveshaft to gain access.
Engine sounded fine, claims it's a Corvette engine but the vin pad was impossible to read due to heavy paint.
Asking price was $16.5 or best offer. He paid $13K in 1990. I offered $15K. He said he was getting lots of calls and wouldn't decide until all offers are in. That ticked me off a bit as he's basically talking about an auction. I will call back Sunday to see where he is at on everything.Comment
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Another thought...
We all know about the hidden vin. What would happen if that number could be determined with the usual flash light/mirror method. The car was stolen at some point. Doesn't that mean that an insurance company has some legal right to the car, assuming it was insured? Could they repossess like some other horror stories I have heard on this board? Just trying to cover all the bases here.Comment
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Re: Another thought...
No. Once a state goes through the process of issuing a new title, it is yours. Period. Usually there is a surety bond involved and a time period for claims to be made. After that, too bad.
It is like these stories you see where some guy gets his stolen Corvette back after 15 years or whatever. Somewhere, somehow, someone did somethign wrong. In most of those cases, the car was no longer that person's as they had accepted the insurance payoff. So if anyone got it, it was the insurance company. If the proper state procedure was followed to title the car, then all claims end when the claiming time ends, which is often 3 years.
In Illinois, you can title with a surety bond and after three years, no one can make a claim. During that time, they can make a claim but they don't get the car, they get the value of the surety bond.
Now if you fool around with the system, like claim a market value of $1000 and have a $3000 surety bond when the car is worth $15,000, then you may face fraud charges. And your attorney may recommend relinguishing the car to avoid charges or having to pay the excess claim. But if you do it all right, it is yours.Comment
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Re: Agree with Joe!!!!
Go back, offer him the $15,000, and ask him to take a downpayment of $100 to hold it and get a bill of sale. In many states, once money has been put down on the car, it is yours until the buyer breaks the deal. If he sells it to another, then you can get the full amount because he sold your car.Comment
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What about Salvage Titles?
Where do you stand on these? Most states will not remove the branding now like was once possible so the car is permanently branded slavage, even if restored.Comment
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Re: What about Salvage Titles?
I made a quick call to the state title bureau before I went to look at the car to find out exactly what 'replacement' meant. (I'm in Ohio.) They said replacement is used if a title is lost or a new vin had to be assigned to the car for whatever reason, including theft (as in this case). Ohio also has salvage titles but I understand that to be if a car was sold to a junkyard or was otherwise totalled out by an insurance company. My guess is a salvage title would be even more scary to most buyers as it means the car had a very serious accident at some point.
Regarding the other comment of offering $15K and getting a bill of sale, I was ready to give him cash but he wasn't willing to close the deal regardless. He is going to play all bidders against each other for the highest price. One person was there before me and said he'd get back to him. You know he's history. And another arrived with his wife while I was there. (I thought it was against the law to bring your wife to buy a collector car.) He's probably a weenie and won't offer (I can hope). So the action will come today. I'll call him tonight and maybe try to close the deal. If he isn't getting any offers, maybe his mind will have changed re my offer. Will post the outcome. David #33277Comment
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Bargain's Don't Last
I was dealing with a seller like you are and someone came up with cash of more than the asking price and bought it already when I called back on Sunday. If it is worth what he wants or more it will be gone soon as bargains don't last. If he put a price in the want ads of $16,500. OBO must he sell if $16,500. is offered or can he hold out for more money?Lyle
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Re: What about Salvage Titles?
I live in the "high rent" district, Baltimore/Washington. If there were a driving midyear for sale for 16.5K in this area, there would be a mad scramble to buy it. I've even seen cars sell for MORE than the owner was asking.
With the risk of being flamed , and assuming that you really want the car, I wouldn't haggle over 1.5K in price. That price is already a "home run". Don't try to turn it into a "grand slam home run". If the car is as you describe, I'll bet it will be gone by the time you call back. Nothing wrong with the owner holding out for his price. Chuck1963 Corvette Conv. 327/360 NCRS Top Flight
2006 Corvette Conv. Velocity Yellow NCRS Top Flight
1956 Chevy Sedan. 350/4 Speed Hot RodComment
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Pretty Good Guess
I called him back early this morning to discuss further. He said he was going to take offers until the end of today. I told him I'd come back later this afternoon for a drive as it was rainy yesterday and I coudn't test drive it. He left a voice mail at noon and said he sold it. The only ting that is keeping me from jumping off the closest bridge is the replacement title. At least that's what I keep telling myself while in denial.
I appeciate everyone's input. Lessons learned on his one.Comment
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Re: What about Salvage Titles?
Chuck and Dave-----
I agree with one caveat; the car IS a bargain at the $15,000 price IF the frame and birdcage are in good shape. If the car suffers from serious corrosion damage to either the frame or, especially, the birdcage, then I wouldn't touch it at $15,000 (or, even, a LOT, LOT less).In Appreciation of John HinckleyComment
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Re: Pretty Good Guess
any time you go to buy anything and you are serious take cash with you and when you flash the cash you get it. works most every time because the seller is never going to pass up cash in hand for a promise. i have bought stuff less than the asking price because i had the cash in hand. if carrying cash troubles you take a buddy that has a permit to carry.Comment
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