running engine in car with no trans

[Jack O.]

I have a '69 427. Is it okay to run the engine in the car with the transmission, bellhousing and clutch removed? How about without the flywheel assuming it is not externally balanced?
Thanks.

[Mike Cobine]

Re: running engine in car with no trans

If you run it without the flywheel, how are you going to start it? Rope off the front pulley?

Seriously, it sounds like a bad idea. The bellhousing and transmission are the rear support of the engine. The torque of an engine with just one broken motor mount can let it jump around and make a mess. The torque of a big block more so.

And what you are proposing is to not even have a mount at all.

And if you have a bare flywheel spinning with 460 ft-lbs of torque, it would grind through the firewall like a cheese grater on steriods.

If you are doing it because it is the initial fire-up, then remember you need to do this for 30 inutes to break in the cam, and in 30 minutes, you could have a $4000 car sitting there.

[Jack O.]

Re: running engine in car with no trans

Yeah, now that you mention it, it sounds more stupid than I first thought. I didn't even think of starting the engine without the flywheel...duh! I'm trying to nail an oil leak and having tried to repair it once already, I'm getting really frustrated.
Thanks.

[David W.]

Re: running engine in car with no trans

Jack you do raise a valid question though, at least one that I had as well. I've come to the conclusion I have a rear main seal and after having heard all the horror stories about improper installation or otherwise still leaking seals after the rebuild, I also thought it would be very beneficial to test without reinstalling everything. There has to be some way and I bet some crafty experts on this board have figured it out.

[Clem Z.]

yes it can be done

i did it for the same reason looking for a oil leak. just support the back of the engine with a floor jack and a piece of wood under the oil pan. my oil leak was thru the cranksaft and out thru the pilot bushing hole in the end of the crankshaft. someone drilled the hole in the end of the crank too deep and hit the bearing oiling drillings in the crankshaft. that was different!

[Clem Z.]

PS

i fixed it by machining a aluminum plug with 2 "O" rings grooves on the outside and pressed it into the hole in the crank behind the pilot bushing.

[David W.]

Re: PS

How did you tackle the starter issue?

[Edward McComas]

Re: running engine in car with no trans

I assume you don't have access to one of those engine stands that allows you to run the engine on it?

This does bring back some memories. I can't count the number of times we used to "ground hop" an engine we were checking out. Being the young and foolish people that we were, we would just balance the engine between two cinder blocks, oil pan sitting on the ground, rear of the engine held up with a brick. Starter and flywheel have to be mounted, of course. Then just get a car battery near it, hot wire the distributor, gallon gas can for fuel with the hose just stuck in it. Revving the engine always got to be exciting. It is a wonder we didn't kill ourselves.

Good luck, and be careful.

[David W.]

Re: running engine in car with no trans

You confirmed my suspicions that the veterans have done this. My engine will be in the car and on a lift. I assumed it would be easy to make a wooden brace to keep the back of the engine in place, as Clem mentioned. My next question is if this can be done without to much hassle, why don't more people take this approach when checking these obviously very tempermental rear main seals? Along the same lines, it would be a way to determine if the old seals are in fact leaking before they are ripped out.

[Clem Z.]

i left the flywheel in place but

i removed the clutch. my leak came thru the pilot bushing hole so i needed to have the clutch off to see what was happening

[Clem Z.]

BE careful !!!!

when you are under the car with a moving flywheel exposed.keep you fingers and clothing out of the way

[Bob R.]

Re: BE careful !!!!

Just a suggestion, how about using a drill in the distributor hole and turn the oil pump. You may find the leak and not create a dangerous condition. It can't be very safe to run an engine without the tranny.

[Edward McComas]

Re: running engine in car with no trans

I guess the best reason that more people don't do this is because we grew up and gained a little common sense. Looking back now I can see how REALLY DANGEROUS this was. As a teenager I, of course, knew everything. Now I realize how stupid I was.

BE CAREFUL!

The best method would be to mount this engine on one of those engine stands that is built for running the engine (has radiator, mufflers, gauges, etc.) Your plan will work, but having the car up in the air scares the hell out of me. I recommend that, if you are really going to do this, put the car on the ground, or perhaps on jackstands. I have seen people do what you are talking about, and twice the damn car came off of the lift. Not a good day for anyone.

If you absolutely insist on this effort, please do the following. 1. Make damn sure your motor mounts are in good shape. Hopefully you have the safety mounts that remain sort of attached even if the rubber breaks. 2. Put the car on jackstands (not up in the air on a lift). 3. Get a real stout piece of wood (or something similar) to support the rear of the engine. 4. Chain the engine down on the torque side (driver's side as I recall). Running a chain from the driver's side cylinder head to the frame would be OK. 5. Make sure the engine is sitting at the same level (or very close to it) that it would be at if the transmission was in it. 6. Make real sure that there is nothing that would get caught in the flywheel when the engine is running (look for loose wires, lines, etc.). 7. Make sure you have a fire extinguisher immediately available, and that you know how to use it. 8. Don't do this by yourself, make sure someone else is around to watch the other side of the engine, call the paramedics, etc. 9. Do not rev the engine up. Remember, you are missing an important part of the engine mounting arrangement. 10. Stay away from the underside of the car while the engine is running. You can lay on the ground and look from outside if you wish, but don't get under the car with that engine running.

THINK SAFETY FIRST! Finding / fixing your oil leak is not worth a body part or a life.

[Clem Z.]

ed this true

laying on the floor next to a open flywheel turning 4000 rpm is not for the faint hearted and in my case it was a race car with open exhaust. you are right as i did mine with the car on jackstands. just run the engine at a steady RPM do not "gas" the engine while doing this.

[Rob M.]

Memories

This thread brings back old memories. When I was 16, my dad and I fired up my recently purchased 350 Chevy engine (for my first car) while still in the bed of the pickup truck. As you can imagine, the engine was propped up with wood blocks and run for a short time with out a radiator. Yes, exposed flywheel too. The most "exciting" part was the lack of exhaust manifolds - the flame just shot out the open exhaust port. I have grown to be a bit more careful with age.

So, yes this sort of thing can be done. Just be careful with the exposed moving parts and have a "kill" plan figured out in advance.

Rob