BW points and Delco plug wires

[G B.]

I rarely buy parts at the one NAPA store in town, so I'm unfamiliar with their brand names. Today when I asked for Borg Warner A112HP points, they crossed it over to an Echlin part #CS89. Are these exactly the same as the Borg Warner HP points or just a generic substitution? The counter person had no idea. I know CarQuest stores cross over the BW points to the Standard Ignition brand, and these points are not the same as BW points.

I use Delco #508N plug wire sets on many old small block Corvettes. These wires come cut to the right length for the long shielding routing, and they only cost $24 for a set. Today the local (Mobile, AL) Delco warehouse said the #508N plug wires were "on backorder from Delco". They didn't think this meant discontinued, but I'm suspicious. Are these plug wire sets still available in other parts of the country?

[Duke W.]

Re: BW points and Delco plug wires

The grand daddy of the high breaker arm tension points is the Delco D112P set, but these are long discontinued. If memory serves, these points not only had higher breaker arm tension - 28-32 oz. versus 19-23 for the common set - but they also had a larger contact area. The cross reference numbers I have for the Delco D112P are as follows:

Borg-Warner A112HP
NAPA/Echlin: CS7860
Standard: DR 2371XP

I have received reports that A112HP boxes contained standard points, and I have also received reports that the NAPA/Echlin part number is wrong. I believe that both the B-W and NAPA/Echlin are the same part manufactured by Dana Controls.

About the only way to be sure is to conpare the breaker arm tension of what is represented as the high tension set versus a common set. You can definitely tell the difference in breaker arm tension.

Jerry - If you can verify or correct any of these numbers, I'd appreciate it. One thing you might do is have them look up the part number for some mid to late sixties Muscle cars. The D112P went into production in the circa '66 on some BB GM muscle car engines including Chevrolet and BOP, but, for some odd reason, were never specified for any high revving Corvette engines like the L-79. Of course, all the SHP BBs have TI.

Don't have any worthwhile comments on the plug wire issue.

Duke

[G B.]

Wherein I give up on BW

I went to the Borg Warner website. They refer to themselves as "an Echlin Company". I tried to find a points catalog cut sheet on-line. No soap. I then tried to order their Ignition Parts Catalog. My filled out e-mail form promptly came back to me as "undeliverable". I noticed that the BW website had automatically addressed my application e-mail to Cathy Martin @ "dana.com". What? There must be some hermaphrodite company out there called Echlinborgwarnerdana.

I think I've wasted enough time trying to buy parts from Borg Warner. Reminds me of dealing with the Army. No answers, no decisions, and above all, no efficiency.

[Duke W.]

Re: Wherein I give up on BW

Don't know if you have Pep Boys in your area, but you should be able to order the A112HP there.

Duke

[G B.]

A112HP lives!

Duke, I went to Pep Boys this afternoon. It took a phone call to Borg Warner, but the counterman found 43 sets of the BW A112HP points in a Tennessee warehouse. He ordered 10 sets for me. We'll see what comes in by UPS next week. For $182, I expect Borg Warner boxes showing that part number. I'm going to ask for a refund if its a generic crossover in some other brand. If they're really A112HP points, then I'll have a year's supply.

The counterman said that Echlin, Dana, BW, and Standard were all the "same company" now. That's probably true in some sense.

[Michael S.]

Re: A112HP lives!

I had to put points in one of the 67's this week. My daughter left the key on. Tried some different new sets of points I had in boxes. 2 offshore, 1 BW and 1 from Dana. None worked! Finally, it was late, went to the Zone and bought a set of "Conrad" points and condenser. Car started right up and runs great! Go figure. Don't know much about Conrad but much more expensive than Wells brand but also includes the condenser with the correct length wire lead.

Mike

[Franz E.]

[G B.]

Delco plug wires #508N

The local Delco warehouse got in one backordered set today, so I guess that part number is still good.

[G B.]

The trouble with Blue Streaks

I've had two sets fail after brief use during the last two years. Both sets had the moving contact face fall off at speed. This was not good for my reputation at all. People expect me to install stuff that works right, so no more Blue Streaks for me. I've been a Standard customer for 30 years, too.

[Joe L.]

Re: BW points and Delco plug wires

Jerry-----

As far as the plug wires go, as far as I can tell, the Delco D508N, also known as GM #12043782, have not been discontinued. This particular item is a Delco parts system-only item, though. You can't get it from a GM dealer (unless they order it from their Delco parts distributor, which many do). From what I can tell, the D-508N has hundreds of applications, so I wouldn't expect it to be discontinued, but one never knows these days. If it was a Corvette-only item applicable only to 55-74 Corvettes (which it is), then it could "disappear" at any moment.

The wire set available through the GM parts system-only is the GM #8912437. This is also a Delco wire set but you can't get it through the Delco parts system---only the GM parts system. This set does not have the distributor wire ends attached; the installer has to cut the wires to length and attach the ends.

One thing to keep in mind, though, is this: the "backorder" situation could be due to a change of ACDelco suppliers for the part. ACDelco is GM's aftermarket parts brand sold in a "competitive environment". DELPHI, the old GM parts manufacturing operation and now a stand-alone company, is the supplier to GM for many GM parts as well as ACDelco parts. DELPHI wants to get out of the "commodity" parts making business. These sorts of parts include things like filters, spark plugs, ETC. The "ETC." probably includes things like spark plug wire sets, especially for old, low-tech applications. Although the "P" in DELPHI represents "Packard Electric" and, I believe, the Packard Division of DELPHI has manufactured the wire sets until now, that does not mean that they always will. If DELPHI decides to quit making these wire sets, ACDelco will have to find another supplier if they want to continue selling the parts, at all. DELPHI wants to focus much more on "modern, high-tech parts" which does not bode well for classic cars.

The GM of old that we once knew is no more. It's "re-invented" itself. In the old days, GM's parts manufacturing operations probably continued to make a lot of parts that a good business case could not really be made for continuing. I think that part of it involved the "inertia" and "resistance to change" that used to be part of GM. Often times, we all used to complain about its negative ramifications, but it did us a lot of good, too, with respect to continued availability of old parts. We never appreciated the "good side" of things. Another side of the coin, also, is the fact that GM sells its products direct to the public. So, they wanted to keep their customers happy with long-term parts availability and, since they controlled the parts making operations, they could keep them churning out parts whther it made sense or not.

Things are different now. DELPHI is a whole 'nuther entity (although its stock is owned mostly by GM). DELPHI doesn't sell things direct to the public (except for XM Satllite Radio). They make decisions on which products to make and which to drop using protocols GM never did. Look for a lot of changes to come.

[Duke W.]

Re: Automotive Aftermarket Consolidation

My 1989 Standard Illustrated Parts Guide does not show a DR2279XP. The DR2270XP is listed as the common set crossing to Delco D106P and D109P. (I think the D109P is the Delco ventilated set.)

The DR2371XP is also listed and crossed to the Delco D112P with the following description:

"Same as DR2270XP. Point set has higher tension spring for high performance requirements."

Duke

[Franz E.]

[Joe L.]

Re: Automotive Aftermarket Consolidation

Franz-----

Now, Franz, I KNOW that your mind works pretty fast, too. No doubt about it!

[Duke W.]

Re: Automotive Aftermarket Consolidation

That's what I thought, Franz, but I wanted to set the record straight in case anyone tried to order that part. Also ,to repeat, the Standard DR-2270XP are the plain vanilla 19-23 oz. breaker arm tension set and are suitable for engines with redlines up to 5500. For redlines over 5500, which would include all SHP engines with single point ignitions, I recommend the DR-2371XP set, which has 28-32 oz. tension.

Duke

[Tracy C.]

Re: A112HP lives!

Mike,

The new point sets you installed might well of been good. I just went round and round with a new BW uniset myself. The car would not fire with the new set installed. I finally pre-set the dwell adjustment screw to the same number of turns as the old set I pulled out.

She fired right up then and I fine turned with the meter.
All is well now.

tc