Perpetuating Stupidity?

[Tom Spurgeon]

I'll be the first to admit that I've been "taken" by misrepresented "Corvette" items on ebay. At last tally, I believe it's close to $800+. Some of these funds I've managed to recoup. However, I have an item listed on ebay that I've been told -and we've seen the photo's in a restoration book- is a rear end housing for a 1956-57 C1. After listing the item, I received an email from someone asking if it has the baffles inside. It does not. ----So, in order NOT to perpetuate stupidity and list a "Genuine Corvette" part only to find it's not, can anyone help me? I need to know if the 56-57 rear ends ALL came with the baffles. As many times before....Thank you in advance.
Tom Spurgeon
40735




Ebay Rear End

[Jimmy B.]

Re: Perpetuating Stupidity?

Tom,

The baffles only came with the rear ends that were originally positraction/hy torque for you 56 guys. I understand that this internal baffle was also known as an oil "slinger". If you had a rear end housing with the vent pipe screwed into a brass fitting it should be a posi housing with the baffles, if the vent pipe just pushes into the hole (no screw in threads) and is sticking straight up about an inch or so with the cap on it then your rear end is not a posi and should not have the baffles. That's my 2 cents worth on this. Jim Blakely

[Loren L.]

I think Jimmy's right on and I think that

exploration would reveal that these baffles came about as a direct result of the testing done for the 1956 Sebring cars.

[Todd H 26112]

ebay tips...

A little off topic but since you mentioned it...

Any tips for avoiding such goofs?

the other day I saw a so-so price on a center guage bezel for a '71 which looked to be an original not a repro. My '71 bezel has been butchered for an aftermarket radio and of course has atleast one of those infamous cracks. (I'll probably just get a repro and not kill myself over it - anything would be an improvement) I was intrigued but the image cut off the top 1/3 however (just about where they always crack). I sent an email asking for a better image "...before I could bid". I got an image and the top 1/3 was simply gone (missing) - I sent back an FYI so that morally they have been informed - nobody else bid on it either.

Here's a few I have to share...

I suggest always looking at feedbacks - a negative here and there can happen but if feedbacks are less than 30 or 50 or so then I don't like to see any negatives - if present I look at the complaint(s) in detail and even contact the party if the item is important to me. If the feedback is in the 100s - 1% max on negs is plenty and if the feedback #s are REAL high - the percent of negs should be lower than that IMO.

Another reason to watch for folks w/ low feedbacks especially w/ the majority of feedbacks from 1 or 2 of the same ebayers - they could be building up a temporary ID for a 'big score'.

Schilling is tricky to catch - if they have another ID or friend poking the bidding up for their benefit - you 'might' check out someone who is often bidding up someones auctions but in small increments and yet rarely seems to win anything.

I sometimes send a question to the seller (sometimes even if I know the answer) to guage responsiveness. When I see no image or a very bad, tiny blurry image I'm suspicious - I ask for better images to be emailed. WHen I get excuses like 'I borrowed the camera and that's all the pix I have' or 'Im learning a new camara' I typically move on.

Using a credit card (via paypal etc) does offer some protections to the buyer. Operative word being 'some'.

If someone is selling a part and you are more knowledgeable than they are - confusion may occur about what you are bidding on. Keep in mind that for a seller of parts - Selling something to an NCRS type may be a PITA! not everyone lives in this world of ultra original trivialities.

For smaller low value items it's not worth going overboard - but hte higher dollar stuff - one can be well served by doing due dilligence on ebay or driveline or whatever. Personally I simply don't do high ticket items except thru people I know or reputable dealers or if I can see it in person.

Bottom line is a willingness to walk away and avoid a case of 'gotta haves' goes a long ways towards avoiding unscrupulous or simply ill-infomred sellers. Caveat Emptor.

...and dont' think that folks selling thru Driveline all walk on water either considering 20K people are eligible to place ads there. Less likely but can still occur anywhere.

But let's not get a bad impressions - for every unscrupulous rip-off artist praying on the old car (or whatever) restoration industry - there's lots of good honest people out there. I like to offer random acts of kindness like underpromising and overdelivering or extra goodies or whatever and sometimes these things come back around.

[G B.]

Good advice

I found your advice for buying Corvette parts on eBay to be spot on.

The only way to run the rats out of any place is exposure to strong sunlight. I think eBay ought to make sellers post their real names and phone numbers in their auction descriptions. So far eBay doesn't even make sellers reveal their true city or state. I no longer bid if the seller is "Somewhere West of Laramie" or in "God's Country".

People who try to live right don't have to hide. I'm sick of internet anonymity and the big talkers (and criminals) it shields.

[William C.]

Re: Good advice

I've sold (and Bought) more than a few items on eBay and I'd say that the prevoius posts regarding checking feedback are very valid, another trick worth looking at is when a picture is not clear, if you capture the picture and export it to your photo editing program it is sometimes possible to see what is actually being advertised. I know of one fellow who uses a dark picture with an old string top box to disquise the Patent number on his distributor caps. But on the plus sice, I found a NOS 65-66 power antenna with a little diligence and some photo edit. Lost out in the end though Darn! Good luck to all, ask questions, and remember you don't HAVE to bid. Self control is a wonderful thing, and just remember there is more than one of everything! (just ask Joe L.)

[Mike Yager]

Re: Good advice

Jerry:

The problem with your suggestion is the "harvesting" that would occur if someone's name and phone number were posted. You think you get inundated now with junk mail and telemarketers. Just think if they could see the interest that you have in buying and selling items. Also, from my experience selling items on ebay, I would not want the phone calls. It seems no matter how explicit I might be in the listing for payment and shipping instructions, I will get a number of emails asking if the potential bidder can make payment or if I can ship via a method that I excluded. I would not want these people calling me.

I have bought and sold a number of items on ebay and overall I have had a good experience, although I have had a couple of people win bids and not follow up on the transaction.

[G B.]

My number is in the phone book

Right next to my name. It's in my eBay and Driveline ads too. It may even be on restroom walls somewhere for all I know.

[Tom Spurgeon]

Again - So Much Good Advice

After 17-years in our family-owned auto parts store during the sixties and seventies, I got to know a lot of interesting people. I use the phrase "got to know" with some relavance. You can tell something about a person if they go through the trouble to become an NCRS member, restore or own a classic, AND still offer some helpful suggestions. I'd just soon pull the item off eBay if I thought (or was told by another NCRS member) that the part was misrepresented. However, until someone tells me that it is not a correct part, I'm hoping someone who bids on it knows what they're shopping for. Otherwise, I will be happy to refund their money if they find it's not correct, or what they need. I guess that's the difference between me and questionable eBay sellers.

More importantly, I sincerely appreciate the tips each person has been willing to share with me during this journey.

Sincerely,
Tom Spurgeon

[Todd H 26112]

A few more tips and last restorts...

As far as location goes - IF they are paypal VERIFIED - ostensibly their address is verified per their credit card billing address. While I really loath 'recommending' paypal - there is some degree of added protection via credit card payments and paypal.

That being said, - that protection largely ends when a verified (online) delivery is made. An real unscrupulous seller may send you a box of coal and as long as he has online tracking that a box got delivered to your address via UPS, FedEx or USPS Priority Mail (online delivery confirmation) - then he wins the dispute. You neg him, he negs you and that's that.

For those accepting paypal - be SURE and use an online confirmed form of shipment - For smaller light stuff I use USPS.com and print out Priority shipping labels from tehir site - if you do it online you get free online delivery tracking - if you do it at the PO - A) you have to fill out paperwork and B) it is paper/pencil tracking and not online (I think) and C) you have to pay for it! Select 'print labels' within their site and you can either pay the postage online if you have confidence in your scale or drop the package off for weighing at the PO and pay there. Oh and you can ship overseas for not that much more and little hassle so let's not shun our friends needing stuff overseas - I've made great friends in Belgium, England and Australia this way!

The VERY best seller from a buyer's standpoint for protection is the one that actually accepts credit cards straight out - via whatever means (their own secure server, phone call etc...) - you are definately fully protected per your credit card and you are now no longer dealing w/ some individual but a merchant. Obviously ordinary folks like you and I don't qualify. (And we should also be cognizant of the fact that those who do mess w/ accepting paypal credit card payments are getting nailed w/ hideous fees - personally I do accept paypal but not credit cards via paypal - just echecks, balance transfers and such - hmmm, maybe I won't buy from myself)

As a court of last restor you 'can' dispute a credit card charge if you got ripped off via paypal seller. Keep in mind that paypal attempts to sidestep this by disputing your chargeback on the premise that they delivered on a service (transfer of funds) and not a mail order type product. There is a good chance you can win your dispute but keep in mind there is also a good chance your service could be cancelled and you won't be using paypal again for future purchases. Consider it a court of last resort w/ potential repercussions - a relative doomsday dispute resolver - I've never been down that road and don't plan on it. Closest I came was when I called my credit card company about a very very minor ripoff per a paypal seller - my CC company was generous and insisted on refunding me directly - I felt bad about that because it ultimately impacts us all. But I'm also now informed that the larger merchant cards are in fact leaning on both paypal and ebay to make things more stringent...?

When the negs have already flown and you have filed your disputes w/ ebay and paypal (they have different time periods - you need to read the rules very carefully) - you can also report the con artists to:

a) postal inspector - if they were going to ship particularly via USPS - it's covered - I go out and dig up ever scrap of identifying information I can and provide it to the USPS inspectors via their online reporting service - be forewarned - they are slow to respond. Don't expect much other than a cold sense of satisfaction at best.

b) FBI's internet fraud division - sorry I don't have the URL handy but it's different from fbi.gov - pretty much provide the same info above - I don't think they do much of anything but it goes into a database...

If known - you can try also try the state AG where you believe the offender ot reside and perhaps the county sherrif - you can track down a lot of info on an individual online as well as their respective local and state governments.

And for the sellers that have deadbeat non-paying bidders - do us all a favor and report them to ebay's non-paying bidder. I actually put one guy into the negative ratings (bet you didnt' know a user actually coudld have (-) feedbacks numbers! - after no response and it becomes clear the winner is not going to pay for the item - I sit back and set a reminder in my calendar program - usually at the very tail end of ebay's complaint period - I file the report - 3 of these and an ID is suspended - FWIW. I am yet to have anyone provide me w/ any revenge type negs thus far - knock on wood!

But please dont' get cynical after reading all of this! There are far and away more great or good folks on ebay, in driveline or in communities like this - these systems largely operate on the honor system and by and large it does work OK.

[Todd H 26112]

A few tips for successful bidding..

There are simply a few:

A) bid early and put in your MAX bid up front and see if it holds to the end... walk away and if you win - great - if not - oh well. I call this Let-It-Ride (not to be confused w/ that Vegas game)

- or -

B) Bid very late like the last 60 seconds and be a much despised 'sniper' - you can potentially walk away w/ a decent deal because nobody has the time or a chance to reconsider and decide if they want to try and out bid you - it is I have to admit, an excellent defense and tactic against 'amateur' bidders who don't know the value of something but it also says to the world you dont' have a life

Also always end your bid in random #s. Instead of say $5 - bid $5.29. Instead of say $125 - bid $126.18. Always change it from bid to bid. A shrewd competing bidder may research your bid history and easily pick up on patterns - what if you always end your bid w/ $0.01 - doesn't it cut deep when you get outbid by precisely $0.01! Likewise feel free to investigate someone you are sizing up as a competitive bidder on something you are considering - do your homework on your competition.

If you happen to simply bid things up in say minimal increments over and over until you are the current high bidder - then wait around and see if someone outbids you and once again bid up until high bidder - you are not understanding the proxy bidding process nor considering the potential loss to a sniper - and you are telegraphing that in fact your current high bid and your max bid are probably the same! Quite frankly you are letting shrewder bidders know you are an amateur. Best defense is either A or B above.

[Todd H 26112]

Another option to classifieds and epay altogether

I'm not convinced it will work that well w/ old Corvette parts or old car parts but here goes... I collect other (unnecessary) things besides necessary parts for my Corvette. There are forums and BBs that usually have a separate forum for 'trading/for-sale' - yes TRADING - as in I'll swap you $25 + an intake for your bumpers... or whatever. Some crazy combos can be arrived at to be sure. Remember the word 'swap'? The great thing about this is these trading/sale forums, while highly informal - are usually an outcropping of an extended online community that already exists and folks already somewhat know each other - at least the vocal ones. Regulars may not be profit motivated and often offer up stuff for trade or sale on such forums BEFORE epay. And this is where you often get a spirit of random acts of kindness that goes around and comes around. You rarely though occasionally get this in ebay and perhaps Driveline though to be honest - it too is so large as to be perhaps beyond such 'quaintness' - a victim of it's own success in that regard perhaps. Prior to ebay - when I still had the interest in perusing Drivelines classified - I must say I enjoyed most of the transactions and telephone chats years ago. (This is NOT to be confused w/ the need for an online version of Driveline Classifieds)

It may or may not work but perhaps a separate forum (not to be mixed w/ technical discussion) where people post 'wants' and stuff for sale or trade might have something to offer. If it were successful a whole new word may enter the NCRS lexicon - that of 'trade-bait'

[Joe L.]

Re: ebay tips...

Todd-----

Just for information, the reproduction bezels for 69-76 Corvettes are excellent. They're made by Trim Parts and, like all Trim Parts reproductions, the quality and accuracy are outstanding. I doubt that anyone could tell an original from a Trim Parts reproduction. I think that these pieces are made in the original molds and using the original tooling. So, I don't really think that you have to look for NOS.

[Chas Kingston]

Re: restroom walls

For a really good time, call 312-976-1616

Geezer

[Todd H 26112]

Repro Bezels - thanks!

Thanks! I can't tell you how much I appreciate the input. There's a bunch of repros on ebay these days and I'm sure plenty of mail order parts houses have them - think I'll just snap one up and cast my butchered bezel aside.