Better witness than defendant *NM*
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Re: Horns of a dilema
I find it a stretch to believe that Dale could be implicated in fraud for simply not mentioning his observation to anyone. If he was questioned on it, and was not forthright about his knowledge of the situation, or had conspired to mis-represent the car, that would be different. As far as conscience goes, that is another matter, and that is for him to decide. However, unless he positively knows that the car's engine when he owned it was the original engine (and not the same as the present 427/435), then he shouldn't dwell on the issue either.
It would seem that if he does tell the owner, and stands the chance of getting involved as a witness in a legal matter, it will still come down to PROVING that the original engine was different than the current one. In and of itself, his observation that the engine was different when he owned it as a used car does not prove that the current engine is wrong.
Bottom line, I think, is that if he absolutely knows it had the original (and different)engine when he owned it, and it can be proven, only then should it be brought to the attention of the current owner. If it is a verifiable fake, he might as well tell the current owner, because it will come out eventually.Comment
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Re: how do you tell them??
The Truth is the truth and nothing can change it. Tell it like it is.... In fact I think somebody should publish a list of VIN's of all the known frauds. The list should include Engine changes other than original, restamps, color changes, fake VIN plates, fake trim tags, and added options.Comment
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Re: Sweating bullets...
Chuck, most of the counterfiters that I know have no conscience, therefor they are not sweating bullets. Besides I am not sure that some of them could even spell computer, let alone log on this discussion board.Dick WhittingtonComment
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Re: how do you tell them??
that's exactly what the Shelby Mustang guys do. Keeps someone from getting ripped off. I think it's a good idea. There was post here a couple of years ago warning potential buyers of a 67 L-89 by a previous owner and a more recent one regarding a bogus 67 L-88. If more fraud was exposed it could only be a good thing.
BLComment
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Re: how do you tell them??
On the VIN's I was thinking the same thing. However, VIN's have gotten changed too. The NCRS judging data would be a good, if not perfect, place to start a registry for authentication. The bottom line is that many BB cars don't have their original motors but yet are real cars and are well documented as such. If a restoration motor (correct date and bare pad) was properly stamped and passes judging, does that make it a less desirable car and therefore worth less? What if the owner just decided to leave the pad unstamped? Which car is more desirable? We all know stories of cars that have been reunited with their original engine. BB cars are in a class by themselves on this issue. It's either real or it's not.Comment
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if this car was judged woun't you be saying
that the judges were not diligent in their inspection of the car?Comment
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Re: how do you tell them??
I know the guy that bought my car from the factory. My dad bought it from him, and now I have it. I know it is the original bb. But I sure can see why someone would want the bb for driving purposes, and have no problem with that, and I remember back in the day when these were pretty much "used cars" and people did all kinds of things to them. But the idea of changing it all around so that you can say this car is an original bb car so that you can sell it for a higher price is fraud. I've been a public defender for quite a long time and if I had a case where the client made a material misrepresentation of this magnitude I'd tell him to bring his toothbrush to court and start making the best deal that we could.
But for the just plain joy of driving a big block, heck its worth more. (don't know how to make the smiley faces.
SteveComment
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Re: how do you tell them??
Colon D makes smiley'sDick WhittingtonComment
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Re: how do you tell them??
Big block this, big block that, Bowlgus this Bowlgee that, Man I'm I ever glad that my 67 is a mouse motor. Who would take a BB out and add a mouse.Comment
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As a matter of fact...
I knew a guy who bought a 69 roadster in the 1983, original 427 car, the seller had blown the 427 and replaced it with a 350, just to sell it.Comment
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Re: how do you tell them??
Roy,
------Years ago when still working in Chicago at Classic Motors I heard about a 427/400hp 67 coupe for sale just over the border in Iowa. Knew it needed work,but went to check it out.Remember that in the late 70s we werent too far removed from the gas crisis. Upon seeing the car we found it to have a 4cyl. Iron Duke Pontiac motor installed and running,connected to the original Muncie. The AC was even hooked up but not operational. We couldnt get together on the dollars and left. Boy do I wish I would have taken a pic. So to answer your question about who would take a big-block out and put in a mouse. Not only would someone do that they could and did much worse........Bill SComment
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Re: As a matter of fact...
Bill and Dave, I stand corrected,Bill that's a good one! But do you think that would happen to day? But what do I know? There is a Company in Ca. that takes C1 and C2's builds them in to hot rods , but keeps the outside look original. They are two years out while owners wait.Comment
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Re: how do you tell them??
I've seen a lot of that sort of thing. When gas went sky high and with premium disappeared or became 91 octane in some areas, you could either slap on 10 head gaskets and have a big block that produced 250 hp, or drop in a small block. And in the late '70s, a big block '68 or '69 was a cheap car, not really sought after by anyone. So you did what you wanted, drove it, and had fun.Comment
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