Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels? *NM*

[Duke W.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

How about scanning and posting the documentation, and then following it up with an article for The Corvette Restorer!

Duke

[Franz E.]

[Mike M.]

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Bob: i recall judging, or rather looking over a ZO6 owned by a well know collector. believe the meet was a regional, in the central part of the country, about 1995. The owner had it there for display as i recall. he had a copy of some order-related paperwork that i was asked to take a peek at. the K/O option was PENCILED in while the rest of the build data was typed in typical GM fashion. If the 1986 "well know collector" car and the one i got a chance to look over are the same ZO6, then i would not accept its paperwork as proof of K/O's leaving St Louis in the 63 production time frame. regards, mike

[Sydney G.]

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

I guess you have to like Saddle to begin with but from the photo spread as I recall, it was drop dead! The interior seat material was the ugly downpoint in my view but probably the nicest tone of Saddle Tan that I have ever seen. A true gold split!
From memory of all the literature I have read about 63's, the first group or batch of cars produced for Joe public and waiting in the pre-ship area, sat on deflated tires as the KO's lost air. This forced them to be returned and refitted with steel wheels until the problem could be addressed which has never been proved before 1964.

[Mike M.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Duke: i agree with you 100% on both the K/O and the 66 L-88 issues. until i see objective evidence, that i don't perceive as being counterfeit, i'll continue to agree wtih your interprtation of these two controversial corvette issues. think i've had enough fun for tonite. mikie

[Michael H.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Duke,

A scan will come shortly. I don't own the car so the serial number will be deleted, at least for now. If I can contact the current owner, I'll get permission to post the entire sheet. It's a complete car shipper and yes, it does include the KO wheels. I first heard about this car in the mid 80's and it was owned by a good friend in Minneaplois, Steve Hendrickson. I looked at the car shipper sheet in the mid 80's and it was absolutely genuine. The car was purchased by a man that intended to seriously race the car and it was ordered with the full Z06 package, including the wheels. It was a plant delivery and he went to St. Louis to watch the assembly. He never owned a Corvette before or since the 63 and has absolutely no reason to lie to me about the wheels. He's not at all involved in Corvettes today.

I have absolutely no reason to lie either because I don't even like KO wheels and I don't want them on my 63, and I really don't care if anyone puts them on their car. I am only interested in setting the record straight. I looked at what was probably the first KO wheel to come to the suburbs of Chicago in late 1963 at the parts counter of GK chevrolet and thought they were ugly. I still don't know what the big deal is with them. I suppose it's one more option for the option people. I like to see these cars today,the way they really were when new in the 60's. Not with 99 options that we all know weren't there when it was new.

I have a ton of original factory paperwork (in Illinois, not here in FL) and it includes all the exact dates of the stop orders and then the dates of the release of the P48 option in late 62 and 63. There were several "windows" of availablity for KO wheels, especially in March and April. The stop orders came in as engineering discovered problems with the wheels. It wasn't just the two bar spimmer and key drive adapter assembly that caused these stop orders. There were wheel porosity problems among other things.

Sadly, we will probably never have the build sheets for all of these cars but if we did, I'm sure we would learn that, yes, there were a few Corvettes build at "the Mill" with KO wheels.

I've been studying and recording information on 63-67 Corvettes for almost exactly 40 years now, probably as long as anyone else out there and this is the only 63 I have ever seen with documented KO wheels.

[Robert Jorjorian]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Mike I do not talk without the balls the back it up.I have the paperwork and EVERYONE on this board is more than welcome to contact either Steve Hendrickson (a former owner)from MN or the car's owner Bill Braun from the IL chapter and ask THEM to furnish YOU a copy of HIS paperwork. That way YOU can satisfy yourself that its legit or continue beleiving whatever you choose. THANKS Robert Jorjorian

[Michael H.]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

Franz,

I can tell you with certainty, the Ralph Salyer car and the Delmo Johnson car did not come with KO wheels and neither were Z06 cars originally. The brake and tank packages were shipped from GM to these two owners, and probably many other 63 owners that were preparing their cars for Sebring and Daytona. Delmo told me that a big box arrived one day and in it was the complete N03 package, every screw, nut and clamp. The same exact tank setup was shipped to Salyer also. He installed most of the big pieces and I have most of what was left over. He never even installed the under body tank support brace. The Salyer car was purchased at a local dealer and prepared for competition. The Johnson car was taken off the front lot of their dealer, Johnson Chevrolet. Delmo told me that when they were done racing the car, it was taken back apart and sold as a demo at the dealer.

[Robert Jorjorian]

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Hi Syd
Regarding that "gold car" I'll explain why it was probably the nicest tone of saddle tan. In the 70s a friend of mine (who later became and still is a Chevy dealer) worked at the St Louis plant under a college student work program.
He told me on several occasions that there was a gold coupe built that was probably the BEST 63 ever built.It was built for a big GM exec. during the evening shift which was the shift my friend worked. On the night that car was built GM plant guys walked thru each stage of assembly and would check off on a clipboard each worker's particular job to make sure it was built exactly to specs.
According to the plant employees he worked with the gold paint used on that car had actual 24 kt. gold dust mixed in.The following day he got a chance to see it outside and his description was it looked like broken glass the way it sparkled !!!

[Robert Jorjorian]

Re: The Phrase is "BUILT WITH" - ALL of the

1963 KO wheels has ZERO to do with a 1966 Penske racecar. Have you ever wondered why the AIM has the big gas tank pages stamped CANCELED when N03 was released as a seperate option BUT 1963 KO (P48) never was stamped canceled? GM forgot? INK went dry?

The FACT that some did not receive cars with KO does not prove NONE received KO wheels on cars. If 200 original owners responded tonight stating their order was held up until P48 was deleted it would represent FEWER than 1% of production.I bet you can do the math on what percentage 3 cars represents.

[Clem Z.]

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

michael i agree with you,i have owned corvettes since 1959 and have been very active in the corvette clubs since then and i never saw KO wheels back in the 60s. most people i knew back then that bought new corvettes could not affort the extra cost of the KO wheels if you wanted the high performance stuff

[Michael H.]

Re: Who has factual proof no 63 had KO wheels?

Exactly right Clem. I purchased a brand new 64 and it was difficult making the car payments for just a 365 HP 4 spd and not much else. I definitely wanted FI but that would have moved the purchase date back even further so I wound up with the bare minimum as far as options go, just like everyone else did then. KO wheels weren't even a consideration. Besides, Cragar wheels were only about $150 a set at that time compared to the (then) outrageous cost of KO's and everyone liked them better. Now, if we could just go back and do that all over again!!!!

[Clem Z.]

mr too michael

i had a new 62,63,64,65 and 66 and all were the HI HP carb version because the extra cost of the the FI on the 62,63,64 would have put them out of reach. the 65 and 66 were big blocks.

[Michael H.]

Re: mr too michael

I have to think that the cars that did have a lot of options were dealer orders for the showroom floor, not customer orders. Those were the same cars that the dealer wound up selling for near cost at the end of the model year because no one wanted/could afford it. The salesman that ordered some of these cars could not have been genuine Corvette people, ordering things like 425 HP with Power steering etc. These items just don't seem to fit together. The only Corvette that I've ever owned, and I can't even guess at that total, that had a 425 HP with ALL of the options was the 65 Nassaw blue 396 that David Burroughs wound up restoring. (corvette restoration, state of the art) The only reason it was ordered that way was because it was to be used by GM in advertising/PR. I think it was the only Corvette that I've ever owned that was a factory KO wheel car. Almost every other big block or FI car I can remember from the 60's was basically optionless, except for the usual items, radio 4 speed etc.

[Chuck S.]

It's The Same As "Big Foot"...

Does that mean NCRS thinks 63s were not built with KOs but singles out a 63 owner to prove it was possible?

It means...A few people, maybe with a vested interest (Owners of 63s w/KOs), have said they have seen "Big Foot" (63s with KOs). Now the rest of world (NCRS and NCRS judges), who have NEVER seen "Big Foot" and don't know anybody that's EVER seen "Big Foot" (Corvette Universe w/General's records), are saying, "Oh yeah? Well, we've been snookered before...You introduce us to 'Big Foot', and none of that five seconds of grainy video tape stuff, and we'll give you fifteen minutes of fame".

Seems like a simple concept to me.