is a CE motor considered original?

[Mike Cobine]

Re: Shouldn't be confusion....

the confusion is that once NCRS was about this:

"Membership in NCRS is open to persons interested in the restoration, preservation, and history of the Corvette produced by the Chevrolet Motor Division of General Motors Corportation from 1953 through 1972."

Obviously, we have changed, and include newer Corvettes today. But we also changed in that to NCRS, history stops at the minute that car rolled off the lot at the assembly plant.

Don't say on the dealer's showroom floor, as Roy Braatz continuely states that dealer installed items were on the showroom and are dismissed by NCRS.

Dealer's "corrected" orders on cars that didn't have sidepipes or aluminum wheels or the right radio or a host of other things, yet, those do not count in NCRS.

But more importantly, the fame of Corvette would not exist, if it were for what happened AFTER a Corvette left the plant. What is important is NOT how they were built, but what was done with them. This is what distinguishes a '65 Corvette from a '65 Marlin. Marlins were built on assembly lines, too.

Would you all want a Corvette if they hadn't raced at Sebring, Daytona, and LeMans? What about some of the styling cars? The Earl air conditioned '63 that was S/N 0055 or something like that, was an obvious "after Day 1" change?

Obviously, NCRS values some history, but then other history they ignore.

That is the confusing part, how they selectively decide what history to praise and what to ignore.

[Jack H.]

Attitude problem?????

(1) On the showroom floor was specifically attributed to NCCB/Bloomington NOT the NCRS....

(2) This club has a WIDE variety of recognition programs including Founders Award, Sportsman.... Nobody holds a gun to anyone's head saying he/she HAS to put their Corvette in Flight, Star/Bowtie, or Mark of Excellence condition!

(3) You lump all 17,000 members (give or take) of the club into #2--blatently unfair....

(4) Last, when a club member decides to have his/her car Flight judged, then the published rules (and there is a reasonable latitidue for interpretation) apply.

(5) Nothing else to say except BACK OFF!!!!!

[Jim T.]

Re: is a CE motor considered original?

Chuck just for the record my CE engine casting date is D 26 O. Build date for the car is July and I bought the car new on August 18,1970 and the engine destructed about 15 minutes after leaving the dealership. The engine block is unpainted just like it was installed from the factory.

[Chuck S.]

Re: is a CE motor considered original?

Thanks for the history, Jim.

Your example makes it sound like GM must have had a set-aside quantity of CE engines warehoused, and these could have had cases cast several months before, depending on usage for different engine options. I thought that complete CE engines would have been more contemporary with vehicle production, i.e. most engine production would have shipped to St. Louis and other Chevy plants, but occasionally a few would be pulled and stamped as CE engines with low maintained inventory.

That would mean, if you blew an engine coming out of the dealer, the delay in the car assembly and car shipping would probably mean the cast dates on the replacement would be AFTER the car's build date. I am surprised...Four months before your build date is a healthy cushion.

I suppose the more logical conclusion is that GM probably ordered CE engines in a batches of what, hundreds(?), and they were all built at one time? So, whether your casting dates would still be OK for present-day NCRS judging would be strongly influenced by how quickly the motor failed...the moral, I suppose, is IF you were going to blow your engine, "twas better, what was done, was done quickly".

Since your engine was unpainted, was only a short block installed?. Other CE engines I have seen were painted Chevy orange, but the paint could have been done by owners or by the installing dealer. I suppose GM wouldn't paint a service engine unless it was completely assembled with heads, intake, etc...too many masking headaches, un-necessary expense?

[John H.]

Re: is a CE motor considered original?

"CE" engines were supplied as (raw, unpainted) short blocks, with the rest of the bolt-on parts to be supplied from the failed engine. They were ordered by the dealer by part number, so the short block innards were the same as the failed engine configuration, but that part number didn't appear anywhere on the engine - only on the pallet/paperwork it was shipped on.

Complete engines (as shipped to the assembly plants, or like today's GM crate engines) weren't available from GM in the 60's - only "partial engines" (essentially short blocks) or "fitted blocks" (just a block and fitted pistons).

"CE" or "partial engines" were a huge PITA to deal with at Flint Engine, as they couldn't be hung from overhead conveyors when they came off the end of the assembly line without exhaust manifolds, heads, intake manifolds, oil pans, water pumps, etc.; they had to be handled with straps and an overhead hoist and placed on wooden pallets, then taken away one at a time on a hi-lo. They were generally built in batches on weekends.

[Chuck S.]

Thanks For Another Nugget, John... *NM*

[Jim T.]

Re: is a CE motor considered original?

Chuck you are correct, only my short block was replaced. I purchsed my new 1970 off the small dealerships show room floor. Was told to come back the next day after it went through pre-delivery preperation. I returned late in the afternoon right about closing for this dealership. My new car was removed from the service area right at closing and doors were being locked as I walked out to get my car with the new car paperwork in hand. I started the car, it was hot outside and the air conditioning was blowing cold. Checking the guages I was stunned to see the oil pressure guage not indicating any oil pressure. I shut it off and by this time everyone at the dealership had left. I opened the hood and checked the oil. It was full of clean oil. Thinking the guage had to of quit I drove off. Engine started making noise and I was a few minutes out on the highway going to Dallas from the dealership. I stopped again and checked the oil, it was still full. The person that had brought me to the dealership went to a service station at the next exit and called the owner of the dealership. He said to drive it to the service station and let them check the oil. It never made it befoe the noise was enough for me and it was towed back to the dealership. It took about two weeks to get my new car back with a CE short block. They said it would of been sooner if the engine would of been easier to get. It was still running good when I removed it to install a ZZ1 engine about 10 years ago.