C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

[Gerard F.]

I recently bought 63-82 Suspension Package, a "complete engineered kit" (from Eckler's) which included an 1-1/8" front stabilizer bar, 3/4" rear stablizer bar, 460# front springs, 9 leaf rear spring, gas shocks, and a polyurethane bushing kit. I had a shop put the kits on.

The front went on OK. However, for the rear sway bar we can't find any means of mounting the rear sway bar to the trailing arm, and the instructions really suck. This original 67 small block did not come with a rear sway bar.

Is there some secret method in these non-OEM kits to install the stabilizer links to the trailing arm, or am I missing something. If I have to drill holes in the original trailing arm, I'll probably not put on the rear sway bar.

What would be the consequences in handling, in not having a rear sway bar and an 1-1/8" front sway bar w/460# springs? Should I send both sway bars back and go back to the 3/4" front sway bar?

The car has power steering, new redline radials, and all I want is a reasonable driver. I'm not into slalom racing or aggressive driving.

Any suggestions out there?

Jerry Fuccillo

[Joe L.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Jerry------

Big block cars had holes drilled in the trailing arm rear for attachment of hardware associated with the rear sway bar. PRODUCTION small block trailing arms may or may not have had the holes. No matter, though, as usually the aftermarket-type sway bars mount differently, so these holes likley wouldn't do you any good even if they were present. Most likley, the aftermarket rear bar requires the drilling of holes in places where there would never have been any for any stock installation.

I would NOT recommend using the 1-1/8" front bar without a rear bar. In fact, I wouldn't recommend using the 1-1/8" front bar EVEN WITH the 3/4" rear bar for a small block. The whole package might work ok if you were doing some serious off-road racing. For street application, I'd use the stock 3/4" front bar with NO rear bar just as it came from the factory. GM went to a LOT of engineering effort to get the car's handling right for street use. Don't compromise their efforts by re-engineering the suspension system, particularly if what you're after is good, all-around street performance.

[Joe L.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Jerry------

Big block cars had holes drilled in the trailing arm rear for attachment of hardware associated with the rear sway bar. PRODUCTION small block trailing arms may or may not have had the holes. No matter, though, as usually the aftermarket-type sway bars mount differently, so these holes likley wouldn't do you any good even if they were present. Most likley, the aftermarket rear bar requires the drilling of holes in places where there would never have been any for any stock installation.

I would NOT recommend using the 1-1/8" front bar without a rear bar. In fact, I wouldn't recommend using the 1-1/8" front bar EVEN WITH the 3/4" rear bar for a small block. The whole package might work ok if you were doing some serious off-road racing. For street application, I'd use the stock 3/4" front bar with NO rear bar just as it came from the factory. GM went to a LOT of engineering effort to get the car's handling right for street use. Don't compromise their efforts by re-engineering the suspension system, particularly if what you're after is good, all-around street performance.

[Michael H.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Gerard,

I think you had the best idea of all when you suggested sending it all back where it came from. To begin with, small block cars, at least 63-67 cars, do not need a rear sway bar and actually handle better without one. The rear bar is needed with a big block to balance the front/rear roll rate because of the extra weight of the big block but would definitely not be a happy setup with your 327.

Much worse would be a 1 1/8" bar in the front with heavy front springs and a soft rear spring. With that combination, you would need a seven leaf heavy load rate rear spring to go with the front rate and unless you plan some very serious road racing, that is a lot more than you need for any street application. A factory HD front bar was 1" so this 1 1/8" bar is much heavier. The rate increases with the square of the dia increase so the additional 1/8" is A LOT!

If this is just a nice street driver, forget all the junk, including the poly bushing kit. That stuff is made for racing and in your nice quiet street car, they will transmt all of the noise into the car that the rubber bushings eliminate. Also, those bushings tend to wear quickly and you will be replacing them before long.

The best thing would be to spend the money on good quality shock absorbers and good tires instead. You would be a lot happier in the end. The tires and shocks would probably make as much difference in handling as all that other junk and your car would still be stock and original.

[Michael H.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Gerard,

I think you had the best idea of all when you suggested sending it all back where it came from. To begin with, small block cars, at least 63-67 cars, do not need a rear sway bar and actually handle better without one. The rear bar is needed with a big block to balance the front/rear roll rate because of the extra weight of the big block but would definitely not be a happy setup with your 327.

Much worse would be a 1 1/8" bar in the front with heavy front springs and a soft rear spring. With that combination, you would need a seven leaf heavy load rate rear spring to go with the front rate and unless you plan some very serious road racing, that is a lot more than you need for any street application. A factory HD front bar was 1" so this 1 1/8" bar is much heavier. The rate increases with the square of the dia increase so the additional 1/8" is A LOT!

If this is just a nice street driver, forget all the junk, including the poly bushing kit. That stuff is made for racing and in your nice quiet street car, they will transmt all of the noise into the car that the rubber bushings eliminate. Also, those bushings tend to wear quickly and you will be replacing them before long.

The best thing would be to spend the money on good quality shock absorbers and good tires instead. You would be a lot happier in the end. The tires and shocks would probably make as much difference in handling as all that other junk and your car would still be stock and original.

[Duke W.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

"The car has power steering, new redline radials, and all I want is a reasonable driver. I'm not into slalom racing or aggressive driving."

Ah, okay! Your best bet is the OE suspension and a set of Spax shocks that you can adjust to your preference.

You bought a bill of goods - load of BS - commie bull - whatever!

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

"The car has power steering, new redline radials, and all I want is a reasonable driver. I'm not into slalom racing or aggressive driving."

Ah, okay! Your best bet is the OE suspension and a set of Spax shocks that you can adjust to your preference.

You bought a bill of goods - load of BS - commie bull - whatever!

Duke

[Timothy B.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

And now, for the opposing (but not necessarily disagreeing) view:

Gerard: If I had known about this forum before I did basically just what you did I probably would have kept the factory setup. But, for better or for worse, I had ordered that setup from Vette Brakes (which is probably where yours actually came from too) long beforehand and could not return it. I did make a change however that you too might consider if you for sure want to have new bars. When I received my bars and started to install them, I decided they were just too big. I talked with Vette Brakes at a show and agreed to allow me to swap them both for the smallest rear bar they sell and the matching front bar. I don't recall the sizes right now but I think it is a 1" front. I also have the grand touring springs (460#) and the poly bushings. I only have the front complete so far, installed for about a year now. If I could go back in time I might not have done this, but since I am stuck with the hardware I can tell you that I personally think the ride and handling is nice. I did not like what I felt was sloppy handling beforehand, particularly with body roll. The ride is less soft, but not by much, and I have no noise problems. Right now I have the front bar on with no rear bar and I can tell the balance is off but not so much so that I avoid driving the car. I too have to drill the holes for the rear bar. For what it is worth, I called Vette Brakes about that and they told me that if my car did already have holes (which some did) that I would have been able to use them without drilling new holes. They may have been fibbing, but that is what they said.

There are clearly two camps on this, particularly on the poly bushing topic. I don't know what camp I am in actually. I have the suspension apart anyway, and just figured I would try it out. So far, I think I like it. Feel free to email me if you have more specific questions.

By the way, how much of your setup is installed now?

[Timothy B.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

And now, for the opposing (but not necessarily disagreeing) view:

Gerard: If I had known about this forum before I did basically just what you did I probably would have kept the factory setup. But, for better or for worse, I had ordered that setup from Vette Brakes (which is probably where yours actually came from too) long beforehand and could not return it. I did make a change however that you too might consider if you for sure want to have new bars. When I received my bars and started to install them, I decided they were just too big. I talked with Vette Brakes at a show and agreed to allow me to swap them both for the smallest rear bar they sell and the matching front bar. I don't recall the sizes right now but I think it is a 1" front. I also have the grand touring springs (460#) and the poly bushings. I only have the front complete so far, installed for about a year now. If I could go back in time I might not have done this, but since I am stuck with the hardware I can tell you that I personally think the ride and handling is nice. I did not like what I felt was sloppy handling beforehand, particularly with body roll. The ride is less soft, but not by much, and I have no noise problems. Right now I have the front bar on with no rear bar and I can tell the balance is off but not so much so that I avoid driving the car. I too have to drill the holes for the rear bar. For what it is worth, I called Vette Brakes about that and they told me that if my car did already have holes (which some did) that I would have been able to use them without drilling new holes. They may have been fibbing, but that is what they said.

There are clearly two camps on this, particularly on the poly bushing topic. I don't know what camp I am in actually. I have the suspension apart anyway, and just figured I would try it out. So far, I think I like it. Feel free to email me if you have more specific questions.

By the way, how much of your setup is installed now?

[Michael W.]

Choosing camps

I think your choice of which camp to settle in will become obvious after a few years with your poly bushings. The squeaking will make sure you don't ever doze off at the wheel.

[Michael W.]

Choosing camps

I think your choice of which camp to settle in will become obvious after a few years with your poly bushings. The squeaking will make sure you don't ever doze off at the wheel.

[Michael H.]

Re: Choosing camps

There are some benefits to having the criptonite bushings tho. When encountering a large chuck hole in the road, the clock will automatically reset it's time for summer solstice, The instrument panel compartment door will automatically open for easy hands free access and the left turn signal will come on just in case you have a left turn planned for the near future.

I think the only part of that entire package that I would ever consider for the street would be the smaller diameter 1" front bar instead of the 1 1/8", with no rear bar at all unless it's a big block car.

[Michael H.]

Re: Choosing camps

There are some benefits to having the criptonite bushings tho. When encountering a large chuck hole in the road, the clock will automatically reset it's time for summer solstice, The instrument panel compartment door will automatically open for easy hands free access and the left turn signal will come on just in case you have a left turn planned for the near future.

I think the only part of that entire package that I would ever consider for the street would be the smaller diameter 1" front bar instead of the 1 1/8", with no rear bar at all unless it's a big block car.

[Duke W.]

Re: Choosing camps

The trouble with this whole suspension issue is that most guys start out with the 40 year old OE suspension as a baseline most of which suffer from various wear and degradation, so the "solution" is to buy some wazzo suspension kit and built it on a foundation of rock hard S-rated tires.

This is just plain nuts, but I don't have advertising budget to run ads in all the mags to explain why this is crazy.

The OE suspension has good, firm ride rates for a sports car, good roll stiffness, and if anything is a little "too neutral" by allowing the car to transition to oversteer at the limit, and the lower the total tire grip, the greater this tendency. The fix is to replace the front anti-roll bar link bushings with hard urenthane bushings and buy the highest grip tires available, which is we've discussed at length.

Beyond this any ball joints and suspension bushings that are suspect should be replaced, the rear leaf spring should be rebuilt and installed with new link cushions, then align to either "sport" or "touring" settings, and top it off with a set of adjustable shocks like Spax.

If you buy the most expensive tires and shocks available, you will still spend less money than the wazzo suspension kit and van tires, and you will have a car with excellent ride and handling that is not that far off the mark from many modern sports cars.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: Choosing camps

The trouble with this whole suspension issue is that most guys start out with the 40 year old OE suspension as a baseline most of which suffer from various wear and degradation, so the "solution" is to buy some wazzo suspension kit and built it on a foundation of rock hard S-rated tires.

This is just plain nuts, but I don't have advertising budget to run ads in all the mags to explain why this is crazy.

The OE suspension has good, firm ride rates for a sports car, good roll stiffness, and if anything is a little "too neutral" by allowing the car to transition to oversteer at the limit, and the lower the total tire grip, the greater this tendency. The fix is to replace the front anti-roll bar link bushings with hard urenthane bushings and buy the highest grip tires available, which is we've discussed at length.

Beyond this any ball joints and suspension bushings that are suspect should be replaced, the rear leaf spring should be rebuilt and installed with new link cushions, then align to either "sport" or "touring" settings, and top it off with a set of adjustable shocks like Spax.

If you buy the most expensive tires and shocks available, you will still spend less money than the wazzo suspension kit and van tires, and you will have a car with excellent ride and handling that is not that far off the mark from many modern sports cars.

Duke