C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

[Gerard F.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Thanks Roger, please see my reponse to Tim

[Roger Legge]

Re: Thank You *NM*

[Roger Legge]

Re: Thank You *NM*

[Michael S.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

This is absolutely the WRONG board to ask any question about the installation of the dreaded "aftermarket" parts. As you have noticed, the word "restore" is in the name of the club. Clearly your question has nothing to do with restoring the car. Driving, enjoying, carressing and loving your car, yes but not restoring!

By today's standards, C2's drive like ####. There are many good upgrades that can be made to the car. I am building a 63 coupe with C5/C4 suspension and aftermarket frame. No resto here! Why, so I can drive and enjoy my car. Yes, I have the 67 with all the chalk marks and documentation. It is fun to drive for play but not as a daily driver as I intend the 63 to be.

Find the answers you need here and on other boards. Install your parts and make your own decision. Polyurethane/rubber bushing squeaks will go on forever. All the performance sites do not recommend either of these materials. I understand the best bushing material is "Del-A-Lum" from Global West. By far the last recommendation on any performance site is rubber! I have installed aftermarket suspension on C2's and really enjoyed the upgrades. I have never experienced polyurethane bushing squeaking in any of my cars in which they have been installed. That includes the "metal" cars like Chevelles, Gran Sports, Monte's, Camaro's etc. I use "Del-A-Lum" in my Vintage Race Car.

Congratulations on daring to be different by "upgrading/improving" your 1967 Corvette. Enjoy the ride!

[Michael S.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

This is absolutely the WRONG board to ask any question about the installation of the dreaded "aftermarket" parts. As you have noticed, the word "restore" is in the name of the club. Clearly your question has nothing to do with restoring the car. Driving, enjoying, carressing and loving your car, yes but not restoring!

By today's standards, C2's drive like ####. There are many good upgrades that can be made to the car. I am building a 63 coupe with C5/C4 suspension and aftermarket frame. No resto here! Why, so I can drive and enjoy my car. Yes, I have the 67 with all the chalk marks and documentation. It is fun to drive for play but not as a daily driver as I intend the 63 to be.

Find the answers you need here and on other boards. Install your parts and make your own decision. Polyurethane/rubber bushing squeaks will go on forever. All the performance sites do not recommend either of these materials. I understand the best bushing material is "Del-A-Lum" from Global West. By far the last recommendation on any performance site is rubber! I have installed aftermarket suspension on C2's and really enjoyed the upgrades. I have never experienced polyurethane bushing squeaking in any of my cars in which they have been installed. That includes the "metal" cars like Chevelles, Gran Sports, Monte's, Camaro's etc. I use "Del-A-Lum" in my Vintage Race Car.

Congratulations on daring to be different by "upgrading/improving" your 1967 Corvette. Enjoy the ride!

[Michael S.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

By the way, the absolute worst shock for a Corvette is a KYB Gas shock. They are not valved/calibrated correctly for our suspensions. Particularly for the rear fiberglass aftermarket springs. The have firm compression and poor rebound control. Even the "correct" ones that were sold by Vette Brakes that was to solve all their problems are now not recommended.

Buy a good shock such as a Bilstein or even a spax. This will solve MANY problems. Anyone want to KYB's "Free to good Home"?

[Michael S.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

By the way, the absolute worst shock for a Corvette is a KYB Gas shock. They are not valved/calibrated correctly for our suspensions. Particularly for the rear fiberglass aftermarket springs. The have firm compression and poor rebound control. Even the "correct" ones that were sold by Vette Brakes that was to solve all their problems are now not recommended.

Buy a good shock such as a Bilstein or even a spax. This will solve MANY problems. Anyone want to KYB's "Free to good Home"?

[Gerard F.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Hey Mike, I like your attitude!

To me, it's a matter of both restoring and upgrading, it's all a lot of fun. I'm the second owner of this car and knew the original, who was my roommate in 67. I traded it for 67 RENAULT 10 (+$2200) in 1968. I have the original warranty booklet and plate, and every shop receipt for an oil change (13) up to 25000 miles, including the first oil change.

I have a lot of memories in this car and over the years, I've made a few upgrades over those years strictly for driveability. The car set for over 20 years in a garage, I had developed brake problems and was afraid to use it (and I always had another car). About 3 years ago, I decided to restore. All new brake calipers, master cylinder, saved the originals, this was the start of the restoration and I was hooked, it was fun doing it, and now I could drive it. Then the interior, console, gages, seats,rugs, then the engine, and now the suspension; boy am I having fun! And just driving it around the country roads here in N. California, just great, feel like a kid again.

However, if I were to go to restoration competition on this car, here's what my probable ratings would be:

1. Interior: B+ Everything perfect except Vintage Air original non-original air conditioning ducts, I put in for summer driving comfort(in a convertible). Also, the quartz clock movement probably won't be reset by going over a pothole with polyurethane bushings.

2. Exterior: D- Added a 1968 luggage rack in 1969 to take the trip from NY to Cal. Holes in rear bumper for custom trailer hitch(towed a hydroplane in 1969 and used for towing utility trailers up to 1970). White vinyl on the hardtop (1972), changed convertible top black to white(1974). Needs a paint job (Marina Blue). Michelin Radials, Gabrial Shocks 1975 (I still have the receipt and guarantee unhonored after 29 years at the same shop)

3. Engine compartment: F Holley Double Pumper 4776 added 1976; gave away original to hot rod teenager. Chrome generator, polished aluminum pulleys, chrome radiator outlet, Vintage Air polished aluminum compressor, condenser,chrome dryer, added power steering kit (original but add-on), all original belts, hoses, repainting the engine, original painted valve covers (2003-2004). It's starting to look great but I would still receive an F. But it's fun.

Now I'm working on the suspension, and all I want is to have my baby looking good and driving well. I am also working on the carb, I acquired a replacement 3810 with cracked fuel bowls. I also acquired a rundown 3918 for the fuel bowls which I have restored. In the meantime, I copted two new 3810 fuel bowls on ebay, so I now have two extra 3810 fuel bowls if anyone needs them.

In summary, I'm just having fun working on and driving this beautiful machine. It is a matter of both restoring and upgrading. If the KBY gas shocks don't work out, I'll change them. To quote an old Marine expression "And the again, who gives a ****"

I hope they don't bar be from the NCRS forum for being an upgrader. Is there another organization which drives their cars to a show, rather then trailering them?

Jerry Fuccillo
Sonora, CA

[Gerard F.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Hey Mike, I like your attitude!

To me, it's a matter of both restoring and upgrading, it's all a lot of fun. I'm the second owner of this car and knew the original, who was my roommate in 67. I traded it for 67 RENAULT 10 (+$2200) in 1968. I have the original warranty booklet and plate, and every shop receipt for an oil change (13) up to 25000 miles, including the first oil change.

I have a lot of memories in this car and over the years, I've made a few upgrades over those years strictly for driveability. The car set for over 20 years in a garage, I had developed brake problems and was afraid to use it (and I always had another car). About 3 years ago, I decided to restore. All new brake calipers, master cylinder, saved the originals, this was the start of the restoration and I was hooked, it was fun doing it, and now I could drive it. Then the interior, console, gages, seats,rugs, then the engine, and now the suspension; boy am I having fun! And just driving it around the country roads here in N. California, just great, feel like a kid again.

However, if I were to go to restoration competition on this car, here's what my probable ratings would be:

1. Interior: B+ Everything perfect except Vintage Air original non-original air conditioning ducts, I put in for summer driving comfort(in a convertible). Also, the quartz clock movement probably won't be reset by going over a pothole with polyurethane bushings.

2. Exterior: D- Added a 1968 luggage rack in 1969 to take the trip from NY to Cal. Holes in rear bumper for custom trailer hitch(towed a hydroplane in 1969 and used for towing utility trailers up to 1970). White vinyl on the hardtop (1972), changed convertible top black to white(1974). Needs a paint job (Marina Blue). Michelin Radials, Gabrial Shocks 1975 (I still have the receipt and guarantee unhonored after 29 years at the same shop)

3. Engine compartment: F Holley Double Pumper 4776 added 1976; gave away original to hot rod teenager. Chrome generator, polished aluminum pulleys, chrome radiator outlet, Vintage Air polished aluminum compressor, condenser,chrome dryer, added power steering kit (original but add-on), all original belts, hoses, repainting the engine, original painted valve covers (2003-2004). It's starting to look great but I would still receive an F. But it's fun.

Now I'm working on the suspension, and all I want is to have my baby looking good and driving well. I am also working on the carb, I acquired a replacement 3810 with cracked fuel bowls. I also acquired a rundown 3918 for the fuel bowls which I have restored. In the meantime, I copted two new 3810 fuel bowls on ebay, so I now have two extra 3810 fuel bowls if anyone needs them.

In summary, I'm just having fun working on and driving this beautiful machine. It is a matter of both restoring and upgrading. If the KBY gas shocks don't work out, I'll change them. To quote an old Marine expression "And the again, who gives a ****"

I hope they don't bar be from the NCRS forum for being an upgrader. Is there another organization which drives their cars to a show, rather then trailering them?

Jerry Fuccillo
Sonora, CA

[Michael H.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Of all the sentences in your post, the first is by far the most accurate.

[Michael H.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

Of all the sentences in your post, the first is by far the most accurate.

[Mike Cobine]

Very true, based on real life

Back in the late '70s, Boone Trail CC and St. Louis Unlimited used to rent Mid America Raceway for a weekend of NCCC fun.

The best lap time I had in my Pure Stock A '68 427-390 was 2:19 on a flying lap that was between a pace lap and a cool-off lap. This was better than any Pure/A had done, and I got protested over it. I lost, having non-stock Gabriel shocks instead of Delco.

The Stock A guys, which allowed headers and such, were doing 2:10. Many of these guys were running the poly bushings that were gaining popularity but still on street tires.

The modified big blocks and race prepared were doing about the same as each other around 2:05. These guys frequently had the Heim joint suspensions, solid bushings, etc, and race tires.

At that time, 2:00 was a very good time for an A/Prod SCCA car.

Basically, you could say that the rubber vs poly cost 9 seconds a lap. But really, you are less than that, since that 9 seconds also included much higher horsepower, cam changes, headers, and so on. Figure most of those guys had 100 hp on me. 9 seconds suddenly isn't that big of gap.

Tires make more difference than anything. One high speed event I went to I had lap speeds of 1:05 and was winning my class. After my time was over, I switched to a set of used race tires and went 0:56 to get FTD as a fun run. Unfortunately, it didn't count. But it sure made a lot of people check the car.

If you are running your car at 100%, then you can gain some advantage with the poly bushings. But most rarely get over 50% of what their Corvette, even old one, can do.

And if you really want to drive fast, don't waste your time with a C2 or C3. Buy a '96 C4 or any C5. You can run the air and listen to the stereo while blasting pass any C2 or C3 on virtually any course.

[Mike Cobine]

Very true, based on real life

Back in the late '70s, Boone Trail CC and St. Louis Unlimited used to rent Mid America Raceway for a weekend of NCCC fun.

The best lap time I had in my Pure Stock A '68 427-390 was 2:19 on a flying lap that was between a pace lap and a cool-off lap. This was better than any Pure/A had done, and I got protested over it. I lost, having non-stock Gabriel shocks instead of Delco.

The Stock A guys, which allowed headers and such, were doing 2:10. Many of these guys were running the poly bushings that were gaining popularity but still on street tires.

The modified big blocks and race prepared were doing about the same as each other around 2:05. These guys frequently had the Heim joint suspensions, solid bushings, etc, and race tires.

At that time, 2:00 was a very good time for an A/Prod SCCA car.

Basically, you could say that the rubber vs poly cost 9 seconds a lap. But really, you are less than that, since that 9 seconds also included much higher horsepower, cam changes, headers, and so on. Figure most of those guys had 100 hp on me. 9 seconds suddenly isn't that big of gap.

Tires make more difference than anything. One high speed event I went to I had lap speeds of 1:05 and was winning my class. After my time was over, I switched to a set of used race tires and went 0:56 to get FTD as a fun run. Unfortunately, it didn't count. But it sure made a lot of people check the car.

If you are running your car at 100%, then you can gain some advantage with the poly bushings. But most rarely get over 50% of what their Corvette, even old one, can do.

And if you really want to drive fast, don't waste your time with a C2 or C3. Buy a '96 C4 or any C5. You can run the air and listen to the stereo while blasting pass any C2 or C3 on virtually any course.

[Patrick H.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

"Is there another organization which drives their cars to a show, rather then trailering them?"

Jerry,

I'm driving my 72 to Windsor for its Bowtie in 2 weeks (200 miles each way) and drove it to PA for its Top Flight (535 miles each way). I drive my 71 to work every day that weather permits. Don't let the guys with the trailer queens spoil your day.

There are other Clubs which focus more on other aspects of Corvetting. I belong to some of those too, but do enjoy this one the most.
And I do tend to agree with the thought of rebuilding the stock suspension but using aftermarket shocks and a fiberglass rear spring.

Most of all, have fun with it.

Patrick

[Patrick H.]

Re: C2: Rear Sway Bar on 67 Small Block

"Is there another organization which drives their cars to a show, rather then trailering them?"

Jerry,

I'm driving my 72 to Windsor for its Bowtie in 2 weeks (200 miles each way) and drove it to PA for its Top Flight (535 miles each way). I drive my 71 to work every day that weather permits. Don't let the guys with the trailer queens spoil your day.

There are other Clubs which focus more on other aspects of Corvetting. I belong to some of those too, but do enjoy this one the most.
And I do tend to agree with the thought of rebuilding the stock suspension but using aftermarket shocks and a fiberglass rear spring.

Most of all, have fun with it.

Patrick