1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

[Joe L.]

Re: Correction

Mark----

I'm very confident that what you have is "real to the car". However, from an originality standpoint, there's not a lot of significance to it. It's a replacement type thing; it wasn't originally supplied with the car. Also, it doesn't provide any information which really helps to document the car. So, while it's VERY likely "real" and it's certainly "nice to have", it doesn't really mean very much.

The same sort of thing holds true for "CE" engines. Yes, they may have been installed in the car under warranty, but in the scheme of things, that doesn't carry any more weight in the "originality area" than any other replacement engine. Indeed, a "CE" replacement might be a lot LESS valuable to the car than a non-CE engine. That's because most "CE" engines will not carry a "correct" casting date or, in some cases, even a "correct" casting number. So, a "blank pad" or incorrectly stamped block of the "correct" casting date and correct casting number would have a lot more "value" from a judging points perspective.

[Mark Churchill]

Re: Correction

Joe,
Appreciate the info and this is a car that I get out and drive and get the feel of locomotive h.p. and will never be NCRS judged. I understand your judging and value info. and appreciate your response.

Thanks,
Mark

[Joe L.]

Re: Correction

Mark-----

If your focus is to drive and enjoy the car in that manner the "paperwork", whether it's original, replacement or otherwise, is totally irrelevent. Believe me, it won't make the car handle a bit different or give the car 1 extra horsepower. Original documentation, as opposed to replacement or reproduction-type documentation, is primarily related to judging considerations and resale value.

[Alan T.]

Re: Correction

Terry, my 1970 "RELACEMENT" P-O-P is (as I recall, as I don't have access to it at this moment) similar to what you describe you have seen on others - it has the "new" (second) owner's name embossed along with the VIN. I don't recall any other vital information on the metal plate, I think it has the bowtie emblem but not much anything else. The warranty pamphlet itself has "REPLACEMENT" in caps stamped on the front, I think I recall it being in red. My question is, for 1970 cars, did the original P-O-P give vital information such as engine, transmission, paint/trim, etc.? I know prior years did, but what about 1970, especially late 1970? I just want to ascertain if my 1970 replacement P-O-P gives the same or lesser information than the original. Many thanks.

Alan

[John H.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

My '69 Z/28 also has a "CE" replacement block, and it's stamped "CE OA" before the sequential number; the Chevrolet Service News announcement in April, 1969 of the "CE" program makes no mention of anything after the "CE" except the 5-digit sequential number, but many variations have been documented with additional characters after the "CE" and before the number. Probably had something to do with internal engine plant scheduling or tracking, but we'll probably never know.

[Gregory G.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

Thanks for the reply. Its nice to hear that mine is not the only one. I was told that there was problems that year and lots of engines were replaced. the casting date is Fed 1971 and the build date on the car in May 1970. I guess the engine did not last too long.

[John H.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

Greg -

The engine in my Z/28 lasted a little over a year, and when it let go, it took one cylinder head with it. The 5/50 powertrain warranty was a financial disaster for GM, which is why it didn't last long; the failure rate was about three times what had been predicted when the program was originally "sold" to management as a marketing tool. That's what generated the "CE" engine identification program (and the "CT" program for transmissions); the warranty claims were FAR beyond predictions, and the beanies had to have a way to separate the 5/50 warranty replacement engines from the usual customer-paid service replacements and over-the-counter purchases so they could track what the 5/50 warranty was REALLY costing.

[Rich G.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

To add to this POP confusion:

I have a july built 68. I have the original warranty book. The car was delivered on 7-31-68. A coupon in the rear of the book indicates the battery was replaced on 8/6/68 and the mileage was 75. Another entry indicates an oil change at 2000 miles on 9/31/68. According to the original owner, the glove box light was the killer of the original battery. Now, the metal POP attached to the book is ALL stamped, including the owner's name and address. It also has ALL the info for the car. (STD, 974.....T0708IRH...P8H27 etc.

So, according to what I read here, this shouldn't be original, because it has the owner name stamped in the metal. It shouldn't be a replacement because it has all the car info on it. It could be the world's best fake, complete with "aging toner" finish, but I don't think so. Also stamped in the metal is the delivery date.

Is it possible that some dealers had the capability to stamp on the metal? The font on the name and address is smaller than the car info.

Rich Giannotti

[Rich G.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

I have some photos which I don't know how to post, but I can send to anybody who will give me an e-mail adr.

Rich Giannotti

[Terry M.]

Re: Correction

Alan,
My 1970, early build, has the engine, transmission, and differential build numbers and of course the VIN. There are also numbers/letters in certain places to indicate some of the options installed on the car originally. It is all just like the page in the 1970 AIM spells out. I don't recall the trim/paint information on there, but the scans of the PoP are at home, and I am not. I will have to defer on final data until I return home late Sunday.

[Jim T.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

Greg my CE engine is also a CEOA. From what I have read, the CE is for Chevrolet Engine, the 0 is for 1970, and the A is for automatic. I am lucky, the cast numbers on my replacement block predate the build date for my car, only the missing engine stamping and VIN on the front pad would cost points in judging.

[John H.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

Rich -

The original P-O-P plate was Addressograph machine-stamped by a clerk in the Broadcast Booth at the end of the Final Line, who then adhesively affixed it to the warranty book and placed it in the glove box; the plant had no clue about the owner's name or delivery date, and in order to have that information stamped on the plate later, it would have to be removed from the warranty book first, and the removal would damage the page in the book. Dealers didn't have Addressograph machines, but some of the Zone offices did; if they didn't, they sent the information to Chevrolet Central Office at the Tech Center to have a replacement plate made.

[Rich G.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

John

Thanks for the info. This POP is attached to the book, but as you point out it obviously could not have been on there when the owner info was added. The page is not damaged, but the POP is slightly "askew" on the page. Stange. Wish I had a time machine to find out what happened.

Rich

[Mark Churchill]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

Rich,

Send me a picture...machurchill@firstfleetinc.com.

Thanks,
Mark

[Rich G.]

Re: 1968 CE Block replacement p.o.p

Mark

Sent using the Kodak software. From richgj3@aol.com.

Rich