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If I have my 1970 cpe judged and the P02 wheel covers are in the box I get a deduct. If I get my 1978 pace car judged and the decals are in the box I get points. 1978 pace car decals were factory to be applied by the dealer. I do not understand why I would get a deduction if the decals are on the car. You don't get a deduction if the wheel covers are the car. During new car prep a customer could tell the dealer he did not want the covers on the car and they would have been put in the car still in the box. Do you guys decide this judging procedure or who set it up this way. I would really love to hear Roys input on this. Thank You, Curt.
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
Curtis,
You may want to check the archives on this as there was quite a discussion on this topic.
The installation of the hubcaps was actually part of the "new car get ready" service that every unit received. If an owner chose to leave the caps oof, he could have done so but it wasn't normal.
The Pace Car decal package, however, was not part of "new car get ready" and the installation was left entirely up to the new owner.
It would have been the same as the addition of floor mats or additional undercoating as an "ad on" item.
NCRS judges cars in the "as delivered to the customer" condition, minus any dealer installed accessories. -
Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
I think the real issue is preserving the cars. Taking hubcaps on and off for judging would potentially damage the caps and scratch the wheels etc. while putting decals on would have the inverse effect. secondly Indy decals are an oddity it the sense that there are very few examples of that type of 'addition' while hubcaps were common and almost all C1s 2s 3s...
Sometimes the rules are just the rules. After all we get points for an NCRS sticker and a fire extinguisher.
Why would you want to drive around with your P02s in the cargo are anyway? Eric #3,182Comment
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
Michael is correct.
the hudcaps were part of the "normal" dealer prep and were installed before delivery to the customer so they should be on the car.
on the '78 pace cars, some customers wanted the decals applied and others didn't so GM decided that the dealer would only put them on at the customers request and therefore was not part of the "normal" dealer prep before delivery. For full judging points, the decals should be in the box and the box in the back of the car to get full points on that.
If the decals are installed on the car there are some points deducted (I think in the paint section?).
If the box (empty) is still in the back of the car you still get points for that but if the box is missing than there are a few additional points lost from the interior section of the judging.
The key on this is realizing what is considered "normal dealer prep".Comment
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
Michael, I strongly disagree, The decals were factory not dealer add on such as floor mats and undercoating. Many dealers installed the decals on cars as part of dealer get ready when they set them up for there stock inventory. I challenge you to show me a document that says decal package to be installed only at customer request........Comment
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Re: Eric, that was just an example
I could come up with many more. It is the point...Comment
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Re: Eric, that was just an example
Curtis, I could as well, but the guidelines for judging are not the federal tax code. This is a volunteer driven hobby that has rules. Those rules are to be applied to allow for the most fair and equitable judging. We must also ensure that our judging is reasonable to the flight canidate. We take the spare out and the air cleaners off and the ignition sheilding off etc even though they were all on when delivered yet we leave the hubcaps on.... The reason is those are relatively easy and for the most part do not damage the car. I cringe every time I need to take any of my hubcaps off. I don't have a herritage car so I am not going to drive around without them.
My original point I still feel is valid. We were judging 53 - 73s for years before 78s were judged. We were judging 53 - 63s I think when 78's were new. Common sense would state the the average wheelcover car owner would be very upset if we forced them to pull the covers. and likewise the average low mileage 'condom on the steeringwheel' pace car would leave the field if we asked them to put their decals on..
Hypocrasy is a very strong word to apply to something that is not perfect but is an organization we volonteer to be in. EricComment
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
“NCRS judges cars in the "as delivered to the customer" condition, minus any dealer installed accessories.”
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I was talking to the original owner of my '67 and asked him about the tires he ordered. He told me he ordered "red stripe" tires" (very important) as shown on the tank sticker. When he went to pick the new car up, it had white walls. He refused to take delivery, so the dealer took the car down the street to the Firestone dealer and had a set of new redline tires installed on the car.
You can see on the tank sticker where the red stripe tire is penciled out and "WSW" is written in because the factory was out of red stripe tires that day. Below that is the "RN 1593"...revision notice and someone's intials. I'm sure they had to keep track of any deviation on materials for the bean counters.
The bottom line is GM made the mistake intentionally to keep the line moving, hoping the customer would take white walls, which he didn't, the dealer had to make it right, so is a dealer installed accessory?
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Another thought....
The preface of all judging manuals reads:
"Cars are to be judged to the standard of vehicle appearance, and as equipped, at the time and point of final assembly by the Chevrolet Motor Division of General Motors Corporation. Presentation for judging is to be in the condition normally associated with that of a Corvette which has undergone the then-current standard Chevrolet Dealer New Car Preparation for delivery to a purchaser, exclusive of any dealer or purchaser inspired additions, deletions or changes."
As you can see we are already bipolar before we get to the first check. Like the factory but as delivered... Hmmm two very different things. So then we must interpret. Bloomington has theirs we have ours. I can make an argument that if the car was delivered without the decals on then that was how it was, you can make an argument that this is a dealer 'deletion' If you were/are the original owner of a Pace car I can see the argument that you didn't put them on and that the dealer did. How many actually did that? Seems like there are an huge amount that don't have them on so normal in my mind would be 'not on' or optional. I took delivery of a 03 anniversery and asked my dealer not to take any thing off. I did it myself and kept it all for future reference. We are also the original owners of a 62. It was damaged at the dealership before we took possesion. (the dealers garage door came down on the trunk!) It was repainted and deliverd 5 days later. Now I have non oringial paint before delivery.....
I guess at the end of the day it is what it is and ever evolving.
Eric #3,182Comment
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
That is one reason I never would show my 67 , tho it's well know it came with a BB hood and it's a SB Corvette ( Noland wrote about it) and the trim tag say's saddle seats but came Black and is all original . Mistakes were made , but the JM don't make mistakes.Comment
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
Ok...so NCRS is arbitrary...now what?Tom Russo
78 SA NCRS 5 Star Bowtie78 Pace Car L82 M2100 MY/TR/ConvComment
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Re: Another thought....
OK because you guys are on one of my pet peas subject I ordered a 78 Silver Anniversary Corvette with a trailer package because I pull things with my Corvette not treating it as some art painting master piece .
The hitch and wiring assy came in boxes set behind the front seats. So then I would get deducted for that in the box or on the Corvette??
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Re: NCRS Judging hypocrisy.
Patrick, how would they judge your car.Comment
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ZN1 neat option....
ZN1 wow very neat only 972 delivered. I am not sure how they would handle that. Roy do you have a trailer that looks like a 78 as well? EricComment
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Roy, You are awsome. *NM*
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