NCRS Judging hypocrisy.

[Michael H.]

67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

Bryan,

You are correct, the 3940077 2X4 crossram was an over the counter package that became available in early 1968. It was never shipped in the trunk of any new Z-28. I had one of the first 10 units that left engineering in 68 and it arrived in a great big box.

The headers that became available for the 67-68 model, however, were shipped in the trunk of some cars. If I remember correctly, the option code for the package that included the headers was Z28B.

The other option for 67-68 was Z28C, which added the 1X4 plenum air system.

Both of these options were removed for the 1969 model. Hope I remember the code letters correctly. May have been the other way around with the "B" and "C". I still have all the GM paperwork and if I can find it easily, I'll send it.

[Jack H.]

Agree...

'breath of fresh air'...

Plus, in almost every case of an 'unfair' or 'incorrect' deduction, we wind up talking about a very small number of judging points out of the 4500 possible and I've yet to see one of these 'problem' deductions make a difference in the bottom line award outcome. BUT, the amount of emotion vented over an error or difference of opinion in rule interpretation is AMAZING!

[Robert S.]

I Agree! NM *NM*

[Mike M.]

Re: Apparently, very few on this board understand.

Thanks, Guys
I don't like to jump in with both feet, but, I hate to see cheap shots by uninformed people, so, sometimes I feel the need.
The next time I get wound-up, have the time and my fingers are working satisfactorily, I'll share my Park City experience.
H. a. N. D.

[Bryan L.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

Jerry MacNeish has (or had at one time) a 68 with the factory headers. I'd like to have any old GM paperwork or drawings on the cross-ram. About 10 years ago when I was restoring my last 69 I turned down a complete x-ram with hood for $5500.00. The hood was silver and I had just painted my car orange and didn't want to have to respray the hood. What a dummie.

BL

[Michael H.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

Bryan,,

I still have many of the internal GM documents, dyno sheets and a pile of paperwork for the crossram package. Also, the instruction sheets that came with my unit. Really interesting stuff. Several years ago, Wayne Guinn did an interesting book about the crossram (and other Z28 Trans-Am items) called "Camaro Untold Secrets". Good reading if your into Camaro.

[Bryan L.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

I have that book, it's excellent like you stated. I can't remember if it's in Wayne's book or another one about the 302 Hemi motors that were developed. GM was scared of Ford's new Cleveland heads and decided to get more exotic with the 302 but couldn't get their new Hemi headed engines sorted out. They sent everything to Smokey for his touch and SY found out that the new Hemi engines didn't make any more power than the TRACOs, etc. so development was stopped.

BL

[Michael H.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

Pretty sure the Hemi is in the Guinn book. (I have the book here somewhere, I'll look) The intake port volume was too big which killed the velocity and mid range torque for these engines. They came to life at about 7500 but there would be durability problems if these engines were to run in a 6500 to 8500 range on a road coarse. Too bad, was a cool looking motor. One or two were sold out of Yunicks shop years ago.

[Gene B.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

Judging these cars has gotten way off the point. I agree that the JM is a living document, but some judges have taken the lunacy to the point of being overboard. Is there any wonder why we don't see cars that already have their duntov awards in judging again. One they don't have too they already received the award, but I would guess many of them that were acheived even as few as five years ago may not even get a top flight today because the judging has gotten too extreme.

I always thought this was a hobby. Some of the judging that occurs today are not to give the owner the benefit of the doubt, but to see how they can find ways not to score the car.

Maybe I am still bitter about the judging that occurred on my car at a regional two years ago. Ok I am still bitter about how my car was judged and the ultimate oputcome of the event. I still can't believe there were 2 58s and 1 59 and none of them even achieved a top flight.

my 2 cents, and unfortuantely you have heard this before.

Gene

[Tim G.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

It seems like many late '67's were ordered with redline tires and the option was crossed off and delivered with white walls. The window stickers of these cars would reflect the whitewalls.
Two '69 Z28's have a 302 hemi head engine in them. One was a yellow/yellow houndstooth RS Z 28 that was outside of Sacramento in the late 90's and owned by Charley Lillard, the other a silver Z 28 that was displayed in Chicago at the 2004 Vettefest. With 13 to 1 compression, who would dare start one up?

[John H.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

Tim -

Charley still has that one, and neither of those two had the "semi-hemi" engine from the factory.

[Tim G.]

Re: 67-69 Z28 Headers and Xram

John, Charley sold the Hemi Head Z28 to a guy in Canada over a year ago, it's long gone. I think that both engines were purchased at the Smokey auction and, as you point out, later installed in '69 Camaros.