Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

[steve wallach]

What should be done prior to judging a "survivor" car?
Should any cleaning of oil and grease be done? I've heard
of people replacing parts with other better condition un-restored
parts etc.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,

Steve

[Mike E.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

I'm sure there are people who have "made" survivor cars by putting on better-condition unrestored parts.
However, if you are a person who has a conscience and/or ethics, you need to know that you fill out a form before the car is judged, and you must state on that form what has been modified/changed/repaired/repainted, etc.
In other words, there is to be no such thing as "making" an unrestored survivor/bowtie car--yet there are people who do that, and who apparently sleep at night.
I have a 30k mile 71 LT-1 convertible that I'm bringing to San Antonio for judging--it's been approved at a regional, which it must be. I will be filling out the form and indicating that the tires have been replaced, one nut on the one exhaust clamp has been replaced, that the wheel trim ring card was chewed up by mice, etc. And it may 4-star, and it may only 3-star, but I'll be able to live with myself.
FWIW

[steve wallach]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your post! I'm not sure I stated my question correctly. I'm not sure that I'm looking for "survivor" judging. I'm considering a car that appears to be a low mileage car, but the chassis definatley looks 40 years old with grime and grease. Paint missing in areas of the frame and engine etc...

If the car is to be Judged for Top FLight judging, do the Judges look beyond the grease, oil, grime etc. at a National event? The car scored pretty high at a reginal already, but just looking at some of the surface rust and grease, etc. makes me want to start cleaning it up, but should it be "cleaned" up at all or just left oily and greasy? Is there an acceptible process to clean a car like this or is the proper process just to leave it alone?

Thanks again,

Steve

[Nick Culkowski]

Nicely stated, Mike *NM*

[Mike E.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Steve--
It's appropriate to clean the car, but very carefully, so that you don't lose any original markings, finishes, etc. that may still exist under the grease and grime.
Again, that is if you are going for bowtie judging. If you're going for flight judging, you have to make the judgment for yourself as to how dirty/rusty/cruddy/greasy it is. In flight judging you lose points for not being in the condition it was when it left St. Louis, in bowtie judging you do not lose condition points, it's "is it the original unmolested piece that was put on at St. Louis or is it not."
If you have one of those "tweener" cars which is pretty original but not good enough to bowtie, and in pretty good shape, but not good enough shape to achieve the flight judging score you want, then you have to make a decision on each piece and component whether to leave original or restore.
That's not an easy call--but too many have taken cars that should have remained unrestored and have restored them, losing the chance forever for them to remain unrestored. A car can only be original once--it can be modified and/or restored many times.

[steve wallach]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Thanks again Mike,

Can you repair things on a "Bowtie" such as seat stiching that has come undone? I'm sure the Alternator has been replaced and a few things like that, but all components are numbers matching. Most markings and things appear to still be in place and there has been no apparent body work, but there has been
some paint work. How can I learn more about "Bowtie" Judging and that criteria?

Thanks again,

Steve

[Patrick H.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Steve,

As you can see from the picture below, my 61000 mile 72's chassis is not pristine. It still received the Bowtie, though. I did use plenty of Simple Green and soft brushes on it, though.

When Flight judging, I usually give the owner "some" benefit of the doubt regarding grease and grime, assuming it does not obscure a lot of the part. We are supposed to look past it (for the most part) when doing Flight Judging. I recall one car I judged almost 3 years ago that had been undercoated at the dealer when new. That coating obscured everything, so he did "take a hit" for that.

The best way to learn about Bowtie judging is to check the Archives (yes, I know, but I've even posted the whole story previously) and also to get the NCRS "Corvette Judging Reference Manual." It has quite a bit of information about the Bowtie process.

Patrick

[steve wallach]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Thanks Patrick,

That's very helpful!

Regards,

Steve

[lyndon sharpton]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

what is that blue thing hanging down by the block?

[Tom R.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Great/grime should not obscure the part/finish, etc being judged otherwise a judge can't judge and the owner does not get credit for that item...so it should be clean. As Patrick points out...simple green and soft brushes.

[Mike E.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Lyndon--
In bowtie judging, if it's not the component that came on the car from the factory, it doesn't receive credit. There's no reason, threfore, to spend $200+ for the correct embossed white oil filter, because it gets no more points than a blue AC filter or a white WIX filter--it's not the one that came on the car from the factory!

[Gary C.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Steve

You are bright to seek opinions here before doing too much. The NCRS judging reference manual goes into some detail on this subject and would be very helpful. NCRS recognizes original cars with Bowtie Awards. "Survivor" award is a Bloomington Gold product and copyright. The rules are significantly different and it does help to understand them.

If you are interested in Bowtie, get the paint out of your shop/garage now. Generally speaking, just remove the dirt. You must be careful and patient when doing this else small items (like the original paper sticker on your original shocks) will just disappear while you are not paying attention. You can ask how I know. You really have to retrain yourself to not want something to look "nice" and concentrate on allowing the originality that is already there to be seen in the best possible light.

For the chassis I would not even consider this task without the use of a lift. It probably could be done laying on your back, but I would not try it.

I have a Bowtie/Survivor car or two. Happy to try to answer questions.

Regards and good luck

Gary

[Patrick H.]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

That's called an oil filter. Most cars have them.

Patrick

[Steve Wallach]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

Thanks Gary,

most helpful!

Steve

[lyndon sharpton]

Re: Chassis detailing of a "survivor" car?

what if it was a real low mileage car, how do you know that oil filter did not come on the car. any way that filter looks like a PF35 in the pic, but I am sure that it is just the way the photo was taken an it is a PF25.