63/64 Judging Guide

[Terry D.]

Re: I'll share info if you will - here's a URL

Thanks Mike, are there any other sites for other years?
Terry

[Terry D.]

Re: 63/64 Judging Guide

Roy

That's a great idea, but since the new manual has only been out a short time is it realistic to think the changes would be made any time soon? Would a revision be made in the form of a supplement, or will we have to wait years for the new edition? I understand this is not an easy task, but it sounds like a lot of the information has been available for quite some time.
Terry

[Roy S.]

Re: 63/64 Judging Guide

Terry,

The decision regarding whether it receives inserts or a new edition level will ultimately be dictated by the significance and quantity of the changes, I cannot answer your question regarding inserts or new edition at this time. I hope to put this issue to bed shortly after the upcoming convention.

[Terry D.]

Thanks *NM*

[Michael H.]

Re: 63/64 Judging Guide

Thanks Roy. I/we appreciate you being involved in this issue.

I agree, the fact that the manual needs serious attention has been well established so there's no point in discussing it further here/now. We need to move forward.

Obviously, there are a lot of people that are more than willing to assist in the correction of this manual. One of the many problems involved is the collection of accurate information, and what to do with it once we've collected it. It's been said that "the discussion board is not the place to do this" but I believe it's just the opposite. Most people don't have time to write letters but just about everyone finds time to get on the discussion board. I think most of the issues could be discussed and agreed upon right here. In fact, that's exactly what we've been doing for the last few years.

The easy part would be funneling all of the input and recommended corrections to one volunteer. (someone far more organized than I) One by one, these corrections could be forwarded to Carlton for the new edition.

The hard part is, actually convincing Carlton that the info submitted is accurate, even if it's different than some part on his car. I agree that it's sometimes difficult to sort through these issues and get everyone to agree on something but I think we already have agreement on almost all of the issues discussed so far. If several owners of original unrestored cars submit info, I would certainly consider it to be far more accurate than info from one man looking at one car.

Hopefully, something positive can come of all of this. The members, and the cars, deserve better.

Regards,

Michael

[Roy B.]

Re: 63/64 Judging Guide Terry

Things move slow ,I don't know wear blame is or how to move things along faster, in early NCRS I did help a little in writing the 56-57 JM,
We were few in numbers then and things were more simple. Now NCRS takes in so many year Corvettes the job must be overwhelming for them .Personally I find and like being a judge now and then , love seeing the Corvettes and old friends , but all the flight awards people go crazy over mean little (in the long run), ( it's only in the short run). To me it's a sham that after getting all the awards any one can get, spending big money the same person, are now afraid to drive it , keeps it locked up in a trailer , buys a big truck to haul it, and so on. You hear them say they wish they could drive it (BUT) and are now looking for a driver. Often they sell it ( look at E-Bay listings) .
I know!! I'm mean and seam anty NCRS saying that and it up set many people, I've spent nearly the same money on my 55 as they have, plus not having no big truck and pulling a big trailer. I restore my Corvette to enjoy and drive. It's great to have your Corvette recognized to be Correct and right but that's ONE day in my life.
Others do their thing and I do my thing!!!!!!

[Jack H.]

Re: 63/64 Judging Guide

Virtually all of the JG books have been revised (revision number is given on the book as well as in the Merchandise Center ads). Books are revised to keep the judging up to par as new information surfaces.

Each NTL keeps a list of known errors for incorporation on the next release of the book and has a team of volunteers to help him revise the book (look at the acknowledgements inside the front cover of a JG and you'll see who was on the team to contribute).

You can volunteer to help by contacting the NTL responsible for the book you have interest in. Plus, simply sending those cards and letter in to the NTL is the easiest way to put information on the table.

New revisions are released when 'sufficient' corrections and new information has accumulated to warrant a revision change. That's a subjective judgement call. Since there's a degree of obsolence cost associated with a revision change, NTL's generally ponder: "The current book with all its faults has been in print for some period of time and we've gotten by. Are these changes critical to the judging outcome of a car's score and therefore warrant a revision roll?"

There is another mechanism to introduce change which is by errata. Known errors are corrected and the revision of the book isn't changed. You'll see the erratas as the page(s) affected are printed on yellow vs. white paper stock.

[Terry M.]

Hey Roy -- no fair posting

pictures of a woodie pulling Airstream (in the background) You'll get certain of us real excited.

[Roy B.]

Re: Hey Roy -- no fair posting

Sorry about! that but as you see many restored other type cars also use them as drivers and enjoy the cars.

[Terry M.]

Re: Hey Roy -- no fair posting

I know a lot of the woodie guys in California have their cars out regularly even the folks up north like you, but the owners in Maine keep them put away. No doubt it has to do with the weather. In the mid-west we get them out all three weeks of summer.

Someone else can address that aluminum thing back there.

[Michael H.]

Re: 63/64 Judging Guide

Jack,

I don't have a 63-64 JG, and have absolutely no plans to purchase one, but I'm told that the latest edition of this manual is just about exactly the same as the one before it, save for a few pages that were moved from one place to another. The same is true, supposedly, for the edition before that. All of the same errors are repeated year after year. I disagree with your recommended method of contactibg the NTL, at least in the case of the 63-64 series. One person, alone, seems to have absolutely no influence. We've seen this fail often. That old method you recommend just doesn't work, at least in this category. It may work well in some other C2 or C3 classes, but not here. The only way to get these items corrected for 63-64 is to go over his head. In my previous post, I mentioned the pile of documentation that was sent to Carlton on the hardtop. That's not the opinion of just ONE person. It's the opinion of a LOT of people, backed up with documentation. Face it. It's not going to happen easily in the 63-64 class.

Dealing with this issue is the same as trying to deal with my local government. They listen attentively, smile and nod their head, then toss all the paperwork in the trash when you leave. The hardtop ordeal was that exactly.

I wish I could resist posting/responding to all of this but I can't. I just keep thinking about people that bring their car to an event and are told something is incorrect, even though they purchased the car new!

I agree with and defend the system but not in this case. Too many years of insanity have been in that 63-64 JG. Too many nice original cars are paying the price. I could tell you some horror stories.

[Jack H.]

Hey, don't shoot the messanger!

And see the 'official' commentary below from Roy Sinor...

[Michael H.]

Sorry Jack, Didn't Mean For It To Sound.....

...like I was coming down on you. Guess I just get a little carried away but it wasn't directed at you, at least not intentionally. It just sounded like a rerun of everything we've heard for the last few years. I think things will be different this time though. Hopefully, we can all work this out and everyone will be on the same team again.