Judging policy when the manual is "wrong"

[Michael H.]

Thanks Verne *NM*

[John M.]

Re: Judging policy when the manual is "wrong"

The idea that the JG is the bible is incorrect. On any given year car, there are clearly things in the JG that are incorrect. It now boils down to what you want to do.
On my car, there were a number of things that I knew to be original to my car, but they did not conform to the JG. I could have taken the easy way out and changed the part to the expected configuration, but I am way to anal for that! I protested every single item that I knew to be correct, and for the most part, either the team leader or National Judging Chairman reversed the deduction. There were still a couple of items that I knew were right that I lost points on, but to me it was more important to get it right than to get the most points.
Unfortunately, once something has been in the JG for long enough, so many people change to match the expected configuration, that it becomes the only configuration that is ever seen again. The example of the copper-plated oil line on C1 cars is the perfect example. Try and find a car on the judging field that does not have a copper-plated line, but it is my stong conviction, that NO C1 EVER had a copper-plated line on it! Every original example I have ever seen is a tinned bundy weld line. Quite often the line will exibit a light rust in the engine compartment, but they are all dull grey under the dash. I think that this is just one of those C2 specs that got applied to C1 cars.
This is where the Bowtie cars are supposed to help change the JG, but dozens of Bowtie C1's have been awarded 4 stars with tinned bundy weld lines, and the standard is still copper plated.

You just have to decide how you wish to approach judging, either by making all parts conform to the expected configuration, or arguing about those things that you know are right. I love the feeling that comes with edcuating a team leader or national judging chairman about a small part of my car that is correct even though the JG say it is not. Tim Mickey and I have spent more than one occasion laying under a Bowtie car at Nationals arguing a point on my car. Winning one of these arguments makes up for the few that you lose, but even with those you lose, you are allways building up ammunition to support you argument for future dscussions.

Regards, John McGraw

[Dick W.]

Re: Photo from Noland Adam's book

An your cut John shows the end of a unpainted grey iron exhaust manifold on the RH side

[Gerard F.]

Re: Judging Manual vs AIM

John,

Just kicked for the new one. Can't wait to see the differences.

Jerry Fuccillo

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Photo from Noland Adam's book

Those are two different pictures. The worker's hand is not behind the fan blade of the second one. Probably taken seconds apart though of the same engine.

[Michael H.]

Re: Photo from Noland Adam's book

Dick,

John and I were just now talking about that. The big clear pic definitely shows zero paint on the manifold. Pretty hard to tell in the small fuzzy pic that I posted.

[Verne Frantz]

Re: Photo from Noland Adam's book

Do I remember correctly reading about the possiblilty of some Tonawanda engines making it into Corvette production? What's with the orange alternator brace. I thought Flint's were black. .....???????

[Rick A.]

Re: Judging policy when the manual is "wrong"

John,

you have valid points - but, until the JG is changed by the team leader, everyone loses! you won your point or points with Tim, but if the rationale for your arguement is not documented and the JG changed, then folks who follow in your tracks won't know the JG is bogus

so, as Michael has stated, this Forum should be the proving ground and collection on making corrections to ALL JGs

[Michael H.]

Re: Photo from Noland Adam's book

Verne,

Pretty sure the lower bracket on 66-67 was installed at Flint so it would be orange. The adjusting brace would have been black though.

[Verne Frantz]

Sorry. Confused lower with upper in photo *NM*

[Loren L.]

Unless they had Power Steering.... *NM*

[Peter L.]

Re: Unless they had Power Steering....

Loren - I'm not clear on your comment. The captive belt is already on the engine in the picture. It's my understanding if the engine were to have PS it wouldn't have the captive belt. Pete

[John M.]

Re: Judging policy when the manual is "wrong"

Rick,
I would agree with your statements. It seems that the process to make changes has become so cumbersome, that they quite often are not made. My thoughts are that any time an item is protested and is reversed, it should automatically make it into the JG at the next revision. If it is an item that there is no consensus on, then the wording should be changed so as not to rule out the possible configurations that are reasonably proven to be original.

Regards, John McGraw

[Rick A.]

Re: Judging policy when the manual is "wrong"

John,

we are in violent agreement!

[Clem Z.]

one of my new mid years had a short belt

with a seperate block mounted adjustable idler pulley on the drivers side. i think it was the 365 HP 64 am i correct?