lacquer still?

[Mike L.]

Re: lacquer still?

Well, I'm glad to see some discussion on the subject of laquer vs. polyurethanes, but I still have some questions. Do you also paint your frames with laquer? It looks like that is what was original on my 67. But how can someone spend 4 or 5 years restoring a car and paint the frame with laquer? I could wipe the original paint off the 'A' frames with paint thinner!(I was just trying to clean them guys). It is my guess that the frames of the car were painted somewhat glossy but dulled very quickly. It's funny how some people can think it's o.k. to paint a frame with cans of Krylon from ACE hardware but you can't use the good stuff that was designed by the best chemists in the world just for that purpose. Also, what about the original markings on the car? The white lines, handwritten project numbers on the body, etc. Is it o.k. to clean off the old markings and replicate them but not protect nice original markings with a coat of clear? Gas and chemicals will eventually take these markings off. I say a polyurethane clear coat over original markings is a better idea, when you have a choice. The point is, your restoration can last a lot longer and look just like it did when left the factory with the right techniques. I'm not knocking laquer. It is a lot easier to use and touch up. I painted a Dino Ferrari in laquer and it looks nice. But good polyurethanes can actually be much easier and quicker when you learn how. And please don't fool yourselves. Laquer requires just as much ventilation and air filters as polyurathanes, maybe more. You really don't want that stuff in your lungs or liver. The laws in California require paint shops to use a low pressure system that sends more paint to the part and less in the air. The proper gun is no more expensive then a high pressure gun. Just practice a little on some primered sheet metal. Lastly, what will you all do when the companies quit making laquers? Can we finally use polyurethane enamels then?

[Juliet P.]

What's Lacquer Shelf Life?

George, since you have a gallon of Lacquer stashed away you must have some idea of the shelf life for it? Are we talking 5 years or 50 or what? It's still available in Maryland (at least it was this past February) but I'm wondering if I should fork over the bucks now so that when I'm ready for my repaint (in 5 years) I'll have the lacquer.

BTW, the stuff I got in Feb matched beautifully. I was thrilled considering I only gave them the stock color number for '70 Bridgehampton Blue and didn't get it computer matched or anything like that. ~Juliet

[Terry M.]

Re: lacquer still? *TL*

Sure you can Bill, and you have painted more cars (in all kinds of materials) than most/all of us have judged. I just wish I could tell.

Terry

[George Daina]

Corvette Improver's Society???

I do like that, wanna be president? I'll be member #2. As far as urethane vs. laquer, I have a problem paying someone big bucks to do a job that I'm capable of doing, and another reason I didn't shoot urethane, I wanna live. So, the logical choice, laquer, I get to spray the paint, I get to live another day, and as a bonus, ITS LESS EXPENSIVE THAN URETHANE.

What a country, they didn't take my spray gun away.

BTW, you anywhere near Elvis land?

[Terry M.]

Re: What's Lacquer Shelf Life? *TL*

Juliet,

I think the answer is no one knows. Was a story in The Restorer (surprise) several years ago. Recommendation is sealing lid with caulk (not silly-cone, painters hate that stuff) and turning can upside down so solids go to bottom and also help seal can.

Get it while you can I did. I have my 2.5 gallons stashed away. I have been advised to get primer as well. If/when (and I know that is a hot debate) lacquer goes away so will the primer.

Terry

[George Daina]

Terry's right, no one knows....

but I do know, minimum 20 years. My dad purchased two pints of Lucite, forgot what color, used one on a job and never opened the other. Early 80's, did some panel repair, before he sold his shop and retired, same customer came in for some minor touch up, Dad went to the rack, shook the can, opened the lid, mixed the paint real good, and shot the panel.

[John]

Re: What's Lacquer Shelf Life?

What is the reference to 2.5 gallons? Does this have any significance or just arbitrarily the amount you have on hand?

Thanks

[George Daina]

Nothing wrong with sray cans.....

in fact they work, and the results are amazing. To tell you the truth, I used Rustoleum's Semi Gloss spray cans to do my frame, the whole frame, front to rear. Came out great, no runs, and the job looks like it was shot with a gun. If you know what you're doing, doesn't matter what you use, a spray gun or spray cans, the results will be the same. If you should ever wander into a resto shop, and quietly observe, what you will see will knock your socks off, the use of spray cans.

[Dale Pearman]

Re: lacquer still?

We aren't the National Corvette Improver's Society. That says it all! I used petrolium based gloss paint on the frame of the 62 LeMans racer because AO Smith used it originally. (Underneath the gloss you'll find an epoxy catalized self etching black primer inside, outside, and completely covering the frame) Sure, the first drop of brake fluid, gas, or whatever is going to mar this cheap frame paint BUT, that's the way the cars were originally made!

Lacquer will always be around. Look at Bill Hirsh's operation. You can still get NITROCELLULOUS lacquer there. He has several competitors. Whatcha want to do is make your restoration APPEAR as typical factory production. I feel the easiest way to do this is to use lacquer, and Bill Williamson isn't the only judge who can tell the difference. On the other hand I know some professional restorer/painter/buff-out men who can make enamel look like lacquer. (in the eyes of most people). The pro-eyes however will always know the difference and be able to tell. So DO IT IN LACQUER if you want to RESTORE your Vette.

Varooom!


CLICK HERE

[Dale Pearman]

Re: Nothing wrong with sray cans.....

Gee George, you're gonna get points taken off for lack of paint runs on your frame! I carefully made several runny boo-boos on my frame because THAT'S THE WAY THE FRAMES APPEARED ORIGINALLY! I'm tryin to be a RESTORERATOR!

Varooom!


CLICK HERE

[Dale Pearman]

Re: Corvette Improver's Society???

ELVIS WHO?

Varooom


CLICK HERE

[Bob Dransman]

Re: What's Lacquer Shelf Life?

Juliet,

It is sad that it doesn't matter what lacquer's shelf life is, unless you can find 10+ year old lacquer. Today's formulations are without the stabilizing agents (lead, etc.) that made the product durable years ago. Today's lacquer is junk. I never believed this until a year after I had buffed out my '64 (1997). It formed what I'll call a "haze", needing to be re-sanded and buffed, and it had never been in the sun. I used to believe that amateur painters couldn't apply the paint properly, but this is not the root cause of the problem. The chemistry is. With the 8 coats that's on the car, my NCRS paint job will probably last about 10 years max.

Bob D.

[Bob Dransman]

We're havin' fun now!... (no message)

[lp]

Re: What's Lacquer Shelf Life?

Acrylic lacquer is the same product it has been since late 1950's. It has not been re-formulated. Lead was used in some pigments, but that was removed years ago and affected only depth of color and color-fastness of some few colors, not the paint itself. It is very expensive and time consuming to re-engineer a paint line. There is no way a paint company would spend the money to re-formulate it's lacquer line in recent years.

The haze of which you speak is caused (in lacquer) by one thing and one thing only -- trapped solvent evaporating. This can happen even for years after the paint is sprayed. While it can be caused by waxing the car too soon, it is almmost always caused by the use of lacquer based primer surfacer instead of catalyzed surfacer or (in the old days) alkyd enamel primer surfacer. This is one reason why the factory baked the primer coats on Corvettes in the era your '64 was built. Air dry lacquer primer surfacer is a very poor match of the factory undercoat. The fact your car has never been in the sun is a contributing factor. It SHOULD have been in the sun -- at least for a while. There is a lot which can be done to 'fix' this even after the fact.

You may want to read my previous posts about lacquer as well.

Thanks

[Terry M.]

Re: What's Lacquer Shelf Life? *TL*

It IS the amount I have on hand, that however, was derived by asking a painter friend: "How much will it take?" Answer: 1 gallon +. Since I hale from the "if a little bit is good a lot is better" school and I didn't want to run short - I doubled his quantity. Maybe I'll paint it twice.

Terry