My 1974 Roadster won a regional Top Flight in 1996. Now I am considering having it repainted. What are the normal deductions on "originality" for polyurathane paint that matches the original color code.
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Re: lacquer still?
My 68/9 manual shows a total of 70 points for originality and 40 points for condition. It specifically recommends a deduct for "roughness, clear coat, enamel, or urethane." I received 15 points off of the 70 originality because my car was urethane. Everyone comments on how nice my paint is so I'll take the 15 points without any complaints! -
Re: lacquer still?
A really major paint man/rub-out artist can make enamel look like lacquer. That's the way to go. As long as the paint "appears as original" you loose no points!
Varooom!
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Re: lacquer still?
Craig,
Your paint must REALLY look good. In fact, it must look so good, it lulled the judges into a generous mood. My '70-'72 judging manual says "full deduction on originality points for excessive orange peel, clear lacquer, enamel, or urethane". Unless the JM has been revised, that's 70 big ones. We have to assume you fooled them.
Chuck SangerhausenComment
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Re: lacquer still?
Bruce,
I was ribbing Craig a little with the previous post, but the penalty for urethane is all the originality points, i.e. 70 points (raw score) for '70-'72 cars. Locally, I am being told acrylic lacquer is available until existing stocks are exhausted and the color selection is limited.
If you want to repaint with urethane, and you want to hold on to your Top Flight, it will all depend on what the original score was and how much the car has deterioated over the years. Assuming that the judges discover the urethane (assume that it will be discovered), and the car is scored properly, use of urethane will lose you about 1.6 points (net score using '70-'72 judging manual). Therefore, if the car previously scored a Top Flight score of 96, and there has been no deterioation/improvement, and the car is judged to the same standards as before, you will be right on the ragged edge.
Bottom line: A high-scoring top flight will not be disqualified by the paint alone, but if your car doesn't score fairly high otherwise, you will have to fix a lot of "little" things to make up that 70 points.
Chuck SangerhausenComment
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Re: lacquer still?
Anybody that uses laquer on their valuable Corvette is downright silly! A good paint job should last 20-30 years, or more. The most a laquer job lasts is maybe 10, if it's babied. Laquer oxidizes easily and requires constant rubbing to stay glossy. It chips easily and is very vulnerable to chemicals, including gas. It shrinks as it dries and cracks over time, and it's worse on fiberglass. The new polyurethane enamels are available in single stage (no clear coat required) or 2 stage (with clear coat). With a color-sand and a nice rub out it can be made to look like a laquer job. For those who think this is a bad thing, I think they're crazy. But that's just me. The best polyurethanes are expensive though. I use the best stuff I can buy. Just the paint supplies for a good restoration (including frame and small parts) will cost me about $1,000. But the investment is well worth it. Try PPG CLV series. One more thing. Each time a car is restored it loses some of it's originality. You went through all the trouble in prep. You may as well put on a final coat that will look great- and last a long time. 23 years ago the best paint was Dupont Centari acrylic enamel, the closest thing to todays polyurethanes. The vehicals I used it on then still have a beautiful finish. By the way laquers are illegal in most parts of California. Thanks, MikeComment
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Re: lacquer still?
I can tell.Comment
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OH BOY ...
I'm gettin out of the way when the resto boys read this one !Comment
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Re: lacquer still?
RIGHT ON! I agree. And I like radial tires too. Furthermore, what's wrong with stainless steel exhausts, brake lines, fuel lines, and of course Silly-cone brake fluid. All this stuff lasts a lot longer as well. I probably should add air conditioning and power steering to my 1962 when I restore it. Right now my enamel paint job looks really cool on my blocked out smooth as glass body. Yessir, this is REAL restoration!
Varooom!
CLICK HEREComment
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Re: lacquer still?
It's 110 points for a full paint deduct, not 70. 70 originality and 40 for condition. If ALL originality points are deducted then ALL condition points are deducted (must be signed off by the team leader)
NCRS-Texas ChapterComment
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Re: lacquer still?
Bruce,
There was a seminar on "Lacquerthane" (Urethane applied to look like lacquer) given by Bob Tringali and Pete Hartman at Montauk. This, in my opinion, was a landmark Tech Session in the NCRS. Although no NCRS official explicitly endorsed the use of single stage urethane at the seminar, it appears that there has been a softening on the issue as long as the paint appears as lacquer does. Bob passed around multiple sets of panels painted with urethane and lacquer, and you really couldn't tell the difference. He also talked about treatment of the jambs with either coarse rubbing compounds or flattening agents. A third area of interest was the removal of the "bead" that forms along the edge of a panel when painting with urethane, and how it should be blocked out with sandpaper. He also stressed the importance of blocking and sanding the paint the next day, before it turns into a rock.
...so us old-timers better break out the Dylan records. "THE TIMES, THEY ARE A-CHANGIN'".
Bob D.Comment
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Yo, Mikey, what ya been smokin, some loco weed?...
Each his own, but to set the record straight, laquer will last a lifetime. Have a friend witha Nassau Blue 66. He ordered it from the factory, paint looks better today than when he took delivery of the car.
You talk of constant maintenance, hogwash, the guy washes the car once a week, and more if it's dirty. He uses car soap, soft towels to dry, waxes the car when he puts it away for the winter, and again when he takes it out of storage, one hour in the fall, and one hour in the spring, doesn't sound like he's a slave to keeping laquer nice. Oh, no cracks in the paint, maybe some will show up in the next 35 years.
Last year I painted my 68, in a two car garage, using a 1 h.p. compressor, used a respirator, cost me $128.00 for a gallon of PPG British Green. Urethane? no way can you paint in a two car garage, and as you stated, major bucks for the paint. My 91 Blazer, factory clear coat, full of chips.
LONG LIVE LAQUER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Comment
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Re: Yo, Mikey, what ya been smokin, some loco weed
Ya gotta read between the lines my friend. Remember the dude that posted, Should I use silicone fluid? I responded, It depends on how the car is painted. He said base coat-clear coat and I answered yes, use silicone fluid but make sure the brake lines are stainless. He thanked me!
This ain't the National Corvette Improver's Society, it's the Restorer's Society. Is there any question that lacquer should be used? Not in my book!
Varooom!
CLICK HEREComment
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Times They Are a Changin'......
you are absolutely right, no more paint jobs in a two car garage w/urethane, unless one wants to spring mega bucks for a fresh air supply suit, anything less, you've made a substantial down payment on da farm, and it won't be long till you've bought it.
First they've taken the wrnch out of your hands with the computer controlled cars, now they're trying to take the spary gun away from ya. When will it ever end? Well, I'm set for the next 35 years with my good ol' laquer. Got a the car painted, and purchased a spare gallon of paint, all in pint cans, sealed, and stored away. I'll never use urethane, now stainless exhausts and brake lines, and that crazy purple colored brake fluid, I do like that.Comment
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Re: Times They Are a Changin'......
Hi George:
I love ya like a long lost retarted sister and ya know it but if that lacquer still looks new in thirty five I'll pay for the repaint. Course I'll be 85 then and the way it's goin have been pushin up daises for thirty or so...
jerComment
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