How to restore hardware - NCRS Discussion Boards

How to restore hardware

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  • Dennis H.
    Expired
    • September 30, 2005
    • 226

    How to restore hardware

    I have decided to restore my 65 chassis to NCRS standards without getting to anal in the process ans was wondering what is the best direction to go when it comes to correct hardware markings etc.

    Do the vendors sale the correct harware new?

    How does cleaned up hardware(ie; wire wheel) hold up to re-rusting?

    Re-plateing?? Is is worth it?

    What did the Last 67 use????
  • Chuck S.
    Expired
    • April 1, 1992
    • 4668

    #2
    Re: How to restore hardware

    (1) A few reproduction fasteners are sold, but are not anywhere near enough to build a chassis.

    (2) Poorly. By wire brushing, you clean most of the existing corrosion off, leaving a fresh new surface for oxygen and moisture to work on...it starts all over again without hesitation. The idea of taking a car apart to wire brush the fasteners and put the car back together is insane. Further, it will do poorly in judging...fasteners can be completely original, but when the fasteners are wire brushed, the original finish inevitably comes off with the rust. Plan on refinishing everything.

    (3) Restoration?? Is it worth it? You can't restore an old Corvette without plating.

    (4) Huh?...Same stuff as the previous 22,939? In retrospect, they should have used gold-plated fasteners...It would have helped the auction hype.

    Comment

    • Joe L.
      Beyond Control Poster
      • February 1, 1988
      • 43193

      #3
      Re: How to restore hardware

      Dennis-----

      Paragon has many period-correct, reproduction fastners. These are not necessarily the same headmarking as those originally used on your car, but they are a period-correct piece (i.e. they were used on some Corvettes but not necessarily yours). Most of the time, these will be judged correct.

      Richard Fortier, former owner of Paragon, has now re-entered the Corvette parts marketplace and is specializing in his long-time obsession---fasteners. I understand he has many NOS fasteners and also new reproductions not otherwise available. He advertises in the NCRS Driveline.

      Most cleaned-up hardware will re-corrode. In many cases, it we recur much faster than the corrosion originally occurred. This is due to the fact that cleaning up the fasteners removes most of whatever is left of the original "protective finish".

      Having fasteners re-finsihed is a viable option in many cases. However, to make it practical, you must have ALL of the fasteners done at the same time. Most metal finishers have minimum charges. These can be in the order of $100-200. That amount will usually get all of your fasteners done whether you have 1 or 200. You can also do-it-yourself with plating kits available from Caswell and Eastwood. However, plating is an art and one needs to "learn the tricks" before doing work you want to come out right.

      A word of caution: ALL fasteners that are used for high strength applications MUST be treated after re-finishing to eliminate hydrogen-embrittlement induced in the plating process. Otherwise, the fastener will be seriously degraded in strength.
      In Appreciation of John Hinckley

      Comment

      • Dennis H.
        Expired
        • September 30, 2005
        • 226

        #4
        Re: How to restore hardware

        I can understand anyones obsession with fasteners as I have always thought it should not be this hard to buy a bolt. haha

        Comment

        • Dennis H.
          Expired
          • September 30, 2005
          • 226

          #5
          Re: How to restore hardware

          Chuck

          Do you know of a good source for re-plating hardware?

          Comment

          • Stephen L.
            Extremely Frequent Poster
            • May 31, 1984
            • 3148

            #6
            Re: How to restore hardware

            As other have said. Cleaned bolts will start rusting while still in your hand...

            I purchased some of the "correct" bolts. They were not like the originals.

            I then decided to clean up the bolts and have them replated. My bolts were in good condition (southern car)
            As you remove them from the car catalog them so you can reinstall them at the same locations. It impossible to remember where they go after a few days weeks months. I also layed "like bolts" on a paper with a description (Size location markings etc.) and then photgraphed them for reference when you get them back from the plater. As stated earlier, make your plating "batch" as large as possible. If you have some parts needing plating send them with the bolts.
            Your bolts will be returned in a "pile". Platers do not keep them sorted.... thus the photos to help you sort when they return.

            I used BRAKE BOOSTERS.COM, Steve Gregori. He advertises in the DRIVELINE. Prices were resonable and turn around was good.

            Have fun. Restoration is addictive!!!!

            Comment

            • Chuck S.
              Expired
              • April 1, 1992
              • 4668

              #7
              Re: How to restore hardware

              No, unfortunately...I never felt comfortable sending them out, but I suppose I eventually would have selected a plater if I hadn't had other alternatives.

              I had a friend do the clear zinc for me (He's no longer in business), and I did the phosphate finishing myself. You can do black oxide yourself because there's not many of those. The copy cad kits can yield good results if you know what you're doing, but I don't think that is a practical option for the many zinc fasteners and small parts.

              Comment

              • Gerard F.
                Extremely Frequent Poster
                • June 30, 2004
                • 3803

                #8
                It's good to be anal

                Dennis,

                Aren't all Naval Officers like that. Just kidding!

                Most of the repro stuff, especially bolts, are not like the originals. Probably different head markings, here's an example:


                Repro on the left, original on the right. Both will get you by in judging,
                but are you really preserving or restoring anything.

                Replating is really the way to go, whether you send them out or do them yourself with the various plating kits. If you are doing a long term restoration, you'll probably save money with the plating kits, and have fun at the same time.

                Actually, most of these older original parts really clean up pretty well, if they haven't been abused in the past. Replacement of the original corrosion protection is important, and sometimes you can make them look brand new.

                You know, Seabees Can Do.

                Jerry Fuccillo
                #42179
                Attached Files
                Jerry Fuccillo
                1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968

                Comment

                • Chuck S.
                  Expired
                  • April 1, 1992
                  • 4668

                  #9
                  Re: It's good to be anal

                  Jerry, I believe the repro headstamp on the left is actually a good rendition of an original headstamp, but not for the one you have on the right. Both the E and EL headstamps are correct, and represent two different manufacturers. They may not both be necessarily period correct for a given car.

                  I found both of these and maybe one or two others on my small block oil pan, but it had been rebuilt before so there is potential some of those screws may have been from something else. On the other hand, I doubt those guys in Flint were sorting out matching screw sets for each oil pan.

                  Comment

                  • Dave Suesz

                    #10
                    I understand

                    the "Last Sting Ray" used mostly NOS fasteners.




                    Attached Files

                    Comment

                    • Alan Drake

                      #11
                      Re: It's good to be anal

                      Just my procedure;

                      Since I never intended to rebuild my car bolt by bolt and wanted to keep it in runable condition, the option of sending a large number of bolts out was never considered. I purchased the cad/zinc kit and results have been good (not perfect)

                      Wire brush the big stuff off then use Ridrust. It takes time in the Ridrust, however it does not remove material as blasting does. As mentioned above be careful with those bolts that need a certain hardness, I feel safer if new bolts are purchased for these points.

                      You will also find the repro are not perfect in details - another reason to plate.

                      Comment

                      • Louis T.
                        Very Frequent User
                        • July 31, 2003
                        • 282

                        #12
                        Re: How to restore hardware

                        Hi Joe,

                        What is hydrogen-embrittlement and how can a fastener to treated after re-finishing to eliminate it? Also, does the treatment restore all or most of the fastener's strength/hardness? Thanks in advance.

                        Louis

                        Comment

                        • Jack H.
                          Extremely Frequent Poster
                          • April 1, 1990
                          • 9906

                          #13
                          Re: How to restore hardware

                          Hydrogen embrittlement comes from H2 gas bubbles being 'trapped' in surface pores of the metal during the plating process and 'covered' over by the plating material. Over time, the gas 'migrates' further into the fastener's base metal causing it to weaken and be susceptible to fatigue fracture.

                          If the item being plated is fresh, the surface is virtually flat with few 'fault' areas for gas to trap inside. It's used metal that has oxidized over the years and been cleaned for plating where the issue surfaces due to relatively deep pockets or pores being opened due to prior oxidation and the cleanup process. Much is made of this but the 'fix' is almost child's play...

                          Those shops that do FAA certified cad plating for critical items like aircraft propellers, have a check box on their order sheets for post plating anti-embrittlement treatment. Our local plater does this service free of additional charge which tells you it's NOT high rocket science.

                          During a club tour of the plating facility two years ago, we asked about the anti-embrittlement process and the proceedure was promptly shown. It consists of taking the plated part and baking it in a conventional oven at 375-400F for four hours.

                          The baking process causes trapped gas to expand, 'rupture' the thin plating that's holding it inside the metal pores and outgas to the atmosphere. Once the bake process is completed, the anti-embrittled parts are re-dipped in the cad plating bath for a SHORT period of time (20 seconds or so) to re-seal the pockets that've opened without giving time for hydrogen gas to reform, OR, the part is dipped directly in chromatic acid to achieve a 'yellow cad' protected surface IF post plating dichromate treatment was ordered...

                          Apparently, that approach to anti-embrittlement is good enough to satisfy FAA government inspectors and it's no big deal to implement!

                          Comment

                          • Gerard F.
                            Extremely Frequent Poster
                            • June 30, 2004
                            • 3803

                            #14
                            Re: It's good to be anal

                            Chuck,

                            I'll have to take a look at the head markings on my oil pan bolts which I'm sure have never been off.

                            The EL bolt I'm pretty sure is the original distributor shield bolt on my 67.
                            I found it in the bottom of my 30+ year old tool box after I got dinged for the wing nut I had put in its place. It was zinc plated.

                            Actually the book says, E or L and not EL, but I think there is a lot of variance in this.

                            Jerry
                            Jerry Fuccillo
                            1967 327/300 Convertible since 1968

                            Comment

                            • Joe L.
                              Beyond Control Poster
                              • February 1, 1988
                              • 43193

                              #15
                              Re: How to restore hardware

                              Jack and Louis-----

                              Yes, the hydrogen embrittlement prevention process is rather simple and as you describe. However, it's critical that it be done for high strength parts. All NEW SAE Grade 8 (and, possibly, even grade 5) fasteners that are plated undergo this process.
                              In Appreciation of John Hinckley

                              Comment

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