Block Stamp Review

[Dave Sly]

I just had my block restamped. I'm concerned that the numbers might be offset too far to the right and possibly the spacing between the numbers/letters is too wide. I'm trying to decide if I need to have the area built back up with metal deposition and then have it restamped.

Any comments?

Thanks,
Dave

[Chris Patrick]

Re: Block Stamp Review

What is your date supposed to be?

I think you have a "0" missing if you mean April. F042ICR for apr 21st.

[Dennis H.]

Re: Block Stamp Review

How do you build back up with metal deposition and then restamp?

[Chuck W.]

Re: Block Stamp Review

No leading "0" until mid January '60.

[Dave Sly]

Re: Block Stamp Review

Thanks. I should have mentioned that the block is dated April 18, 1959 and that the build date is April 21st 1959.

[Tom D.]

Re: Block Stamp Review

I assume it was not F04... before the re-stamp?

[Tom D.]

Re: Block Stamp Review

Have you looked at the 60 blocks shown on C1registry.com?

Here's the address - Unfortunately there are no 59's shown.

Tom D.
4889




Stamp Pad page on C1registry.com

[Dave Sly]

Re: Block Stamp Review

yes. The original stamp was F428xx I cannot remember the specific engine code (i.e. last 2 letters).

[William B.]

This is good, restamp and have NCRS review? *NM*

[Dave Sly]

Re: Block Stamp Review

I believe they use a plasma torch and vaporize cast iron filings which are then deposited on the pre-heated block (in a vacuum) so that the iron particles fuse into the block's casting.

Once this the cast iron is built up, it is machined back down (broached) and looks exactly like the cast material (which it is).

I believe that this is the same process done to cast aluminum parts in a process called re-skinning.

I also have heard that some shops build up the material with an acetylene torch and welding rod and then machine it back down. I understand that if they are good (and everything is hot enough), that the end result is indistinguishable from the original pad.

[Mark #28455]

Officially, NCRS is NOT against restamps

There has been a clear review of this policy in the past. The issue is whether the block is a correct restoration (hence the "R" in NCRS) block vs. a counterfeit block. Counterfeit being when the engine stampings are changed to make the car something it originally wasn't. Although many seem to think of the block stamping as akin to the "holy grail" that particular logic falls apart when that same person has no problems with aftermarket interiors etc, asking in this same forum "so who makes the best replacement seat covers" etc and nobody seems to take offense and demand that he only use an original or else ride on the bare seat frames. In addition, if more people were aware of the HUGE number of restamps out there (over 1500 from one restamper alone) they would realize that even NCRS and Bloomington judges are involved in putting restamped blocks into Corvettes that they are restoring (and not telling anyone that it's a restamp). I would bet that the majority of 1967 427/435 cars may be restamps.

Buyer beware - nobody should assume a car for sale really has an original block unless they can personally vouch for its history for at least the past 15 years or more.

Sorry, didn't want to bust your chops over this issue, it just bothers me how many of the "well connected" members will say one thing and do another.

Mark

[Frank C.]

Re: Officially, NCRS is NOT against restamps

Mark....I agree with most of your post, BUT I still don't agree with restamps. So somebody ends up with what appears to be an original (to the car) block, what about the people that have genuine originals? I know it's all about the $$$$$ these days. Money has ruined everything in this country. Just look at ball sports. However with ball sports I don't have to buy season tickets and don't....Sorry if I Ranted....Regards Frank

[Eric J.]

Door panels -vs- block is a big difference.

Mark, We do have an R in the name but you would have to admit no one.... no one ever pulled a door panel from a car and felt that chill run down his or her spine like you would if a past owner said "L-88... heck no it's a 300 horse power glide, have the original block in my barn.... next to those tattered original door panels." "Door panels you mean these ones are from Corvette America.... The block and it's configuration makes the car period. Eric #3,182

[Mark #28455]

Restoration vs. Counterfeit

I ABSOLUTELY feel that counterfeiting is wrong, illegal, and can land someone in a lot of trouble with a $$$ lawsuit, and that's the way everyone should see it.

That being said, I also think there is nothing wrong with taking a documented original 435 HP car and putting together a correct 435 HP engine to restore it. Unfortunately, not everyone is honest! There are a lot of people out there who "believe" their car was an original 435 HP car despite having no significant evidence to back it up. SO... they go out and buy the sway bars, springs, differential, fuel lines, (and oh yea, I forgot about buying the block - restamped of course) maybe the F41 and J56 too and "restore" their car.

In many states, the statute of limitations in such a case starts to run from the time of "discovery" of the coverup, so potentially a new owner 20 or more years down the road can come back and find the crook and nail them with a $$$ lawsuit! Imagine if you bought a fake 435 HP car 15 years ago for $40,000 and now discovered the deception! You could sue for damages in excess of $250,000 since that's what your current day lost value would be!

It always surprises me how many "original" 1957 fuelies show up at the NCRS meets given that only 1000 of the original 6300 cars were fuelies at the factory (but hey, mine had the original 6500 redline tach so it must be a REAL one ). And by the way, most of them are red too - what a coincidence . But then again, they were all "documented" as original because they had a "correct" fuelie radiator support!

I want to make it clear to all out there considering buying a $$$ Corvette with a HP engine that there are a LOT of good restamps out there so you should consider every restored high $$$ car as suspect until proven otherwise! By the way, that restamper I talked with started rattling off a list of people who have used his services and a LOT of those names seemed quite familiar from places like NCRS and Bloomington. In fact, he told me that when THEY wanted a block stamped, they came prepared with LOTS of pictures of engine pads from similar VIN number cars just to make sure THEIR block had the right characters! Ever wonder why people are snapping pictures of your stamp pad at the NCRS meet?

I really do think that we're on the same page about this.
Mark

[Chris Patrick]

Re: Officially, NCRS is NOT against restamps

From my own understanding and what I have picked up from several friends in the hobby and from the many Corvette boards around, there are so many restamps it is ridiculous!

Now, the 250 hp and 300 hp are less likely, but still not immune. The "desirable" cars are far too many for anyone to know.

So at this point in time, why does anyone foolishly spend money for these numbers? Yes, spend money for a correct block versus the 350 or 307 that is tossed in there, just like for a restored interior versus a J.C. Whitney interior. But to go insane on the price is just that - insane. It isn't a one-off rare painting, it is a mass produced car.

Restamping has been going on for what, 25, 30 years or more? Does anyone thing they can stop it? I hate to think how many restamps have spent more years in a car than the original did. And for all who are honest saying it is a restoration, there are probably 10 who simply want the higher dollars. And even the honest get lost, as the car passes from owner to owner until no one knows.

Sorry, Frank, just like baseball and not buying tickets. Simply don't buy into the 400% premium for the "original engine" bit. Unless it is the original owner, you don't know. And even then, you don't know. How many original owners claim nothing was changed or rebuilt, yet it turns out the cars were? Not every original owner was a gearhead, and dealers could, would, and had to do things that the owners often didn't know, understand, or care about.

And, is this a restamp or original?