Number interpretation: grease pencilled

[Robert C.]

Re: Number interpretation: grease pencilled

Juliet, The penciled # on the build sheet is the last 3 digits of your vin.I Had the correct last 3 digits on my 71 build sheet as well. The 163 would probably be the sequence #.You might find the 163 on your rear outside bulkhead, in front of the gas tank. Also look close for black small stamped dates on front and rear inside body fiberglass.


Texas Chapter NCRS

[Tom B.]

Re: Number interpretation: grease pencilled

Juliet,

I thought John's information was very excellent as well. Without someone knowing that your message has been part of an on-going thread and what has developed with this over the last several days, it is a little risky for anyone to just jump in and start making definite statements about what these hand written numbers are on the sheets.

Hopefully John will continue to check in and give us more information. He didn't mention too much about the hand written sheet numbers, but from what I get out of his information so far and what it APPEARS to me to be is really the "Sequence number" for the position of the car on the assembly line. It may or may not be DIRECTLY related to the "eventual" VIN that is assigned to the car, but there is (or could be) a CORRELATION to it.

Since the hand written number appears to be "carboned through" the pages, and then one of the pages is later attached to the tank, it is probably as John mentions, the way the car was tracked "at all times" until it was eventually assigned it's VIN and out the door. The way the sequence number system and the way the VIN system have a similar way of numbering may be the cause that many, probably most, of the "sequence numbers" had a way of matching or coming close to matching the eventual VIN. It also appears that there may be one or more ways to create a "mis-matching" of the hand written build sheet number and the eventual VIN.

Of course this is just my outlook so far and hopefully John can help explain or at the least not have to untangle too much information like mine. TBarr #24014

[Terry M.]

Re: Number interpretation: grease pencilled *TL*

Tom,

I don't know when John worked at Corvette St. Louis, but the VIN sequence number story he posted below begs for more information than he provided.

1) VIN number did not appear on Corvette broadcast sheets (the one on the tank) until mid 1971 model year. Thus the VIN was not on the broadcast sheet earlier - at least not the part that was attached to the car.

2) The position of the VIN tag on 1968-1982 Corvettes demands the VIN was attached to the body before the car was painted. Earlier could have been different. So for 1968-1982 the VIN was not put on just before the car left the line. The assemblers may not have looked at the VIN before that point, but it was certainly attached (consider its post 1968 location) before paint because the black paint on the VIN tag is from the black out operation.

Terry

[Tom B.]

Re: 68-72 VIN tags

Terry,

I'm most definitely with you on the side for more information. From past messages of John here at the Discussion Board I've believed his St. Louis involvement to have been somewhat extensive. What it has been I can only leave for him to say.

I probably have just as much confusion as anyone on the matter, but am a little curious about the 68-72 VIN tags you mention. I had the impression that they were a "black metal" and not painted nor had been sprayed during the "black out" period. My 68 APPEARS as black metal, and the 68-69 JM (page 6) seems to confirm that. I could be just as mistaken as anyone, though. If it was attached prior to painting, would (or could) it not then have a paint color on it? TBarr #24014

[Terry M.]

Re: 68-72 VIN tags *TL*

Tom,

The VIN tag itself may be black coated some way (I have never had one loose in my hand), but my belief (based on seeing black painted rosette rivets.) is that the VIN tag went on the body before paint. Then in the black out operation the windshield pillars (and installed VIN) were black painted. My belief is they shot the windshield wiper area (transmissions installed and groady sealant in place) and up the windshield pillars at the same time as the engine compartment blackout. After your 1968 they did the top front of the doors at this time as well. They also got the rear ventilation openings on coupes at this stage on the line.

The real proof of this would be if someone fesses up to seeing a car with the VIN off. Is it black behind the VIN tag or the green zink oxide paint that they use on the birdcage?

I think the real reason they didn't use the VIN for tracking is the bodies (after paint and before trim) were way in the air and no one could see the VIN. The big white sequence numbers were very visible from below. There is one on passenger toe boards and right in front of where the gas tank is when body is on chassis. Both of these are real apparent if the body is 10 to 20 feet in the air.

In any case we can sure agree the 1968-1982 VIN tag was in place before final trim which is the windshiled and exterior moldings. At that point I think the car was still a ways from the end of the line.

Terry

[Tom B.]

Re: 68-72 VIN tags

Terry,

Yes, your information makes a lot of sense, too. Most definitely the 68+ VIN tags were in place before the windshield and trim, which would have been a way "up the line".

It's better for me (or anyone) not to get out over deep water, especially when I can hear the ice popping and cracking beneath my feet, so to speak. It's far to easy for "speculation" to turn to "rumor" which somehow finds it's way into "truth and gospel". That's not something I intentionally try to do or promote and am more than willing to watch for credible information.

Thanks for all your help, Terry. TBarr #24014

[Chuck S.]

Re: Number interpretation: grease pencilled

Terry,

I present this only as a data point for your consideration: If the VIN plate was attached before paint, you would expect to see bare fiberglass under the VIN plate, right? After I read your post, that concept seemed inconsistent with what I had oberved, so I went back and looked at my photos taken during disassembly of my '70 coupe. In one photo, I had removed the VIN plate (yep, I did it, but plan to put it back just like the factory), but the car wasn't stripped yet...there is definitely no bare spot where the VIN plate resided.

It may be that both cases are true. If those guys were trying to shuffle those cars around to get them painted and onto the assembly line, they could have been changing the routine all the time to make it happen.

Just a thought.

Chuck Sangerhausen

[Chuck S.]

VIN Plate vs. Body/Trim Plate

Terry,

Sorry.

I got my plates mixed up. The plate I posted about was actually the body/trim plate on the hinge column. Have NOT removed the VIN plate, nor do I have any plans to remove same (rosette rivets you know).

Chuck Sangerhausen

[John H.]

Re: "Job Numbers" - How It Was.......

Chuck -

The numbers you refer to that are in places impossible to reach in normal car position were marked on the panels while they were in off-line subassembly stations in the Body Shop, and are unique to the Body Shop, and different from the "job number" assigned at the beginning of Final Assembly.

Body-in-white subassemblies were built up off-line in large bonding fixtures, with different panels and fixtures used for coupes and convertibles; after the bond went off (about 6-7 minutes), the subassembly was removed from the bonding fixture and stacked in line build sequence on slide racks that fed to the main line where the body was assembled on a "build truck".

Various operators along the line were responsible to mark the body for key options - a matter of convenience, as those markings could be read from a distance, while the information on the Broadcast sheet was printed in very small letters and required the operator to walk from his bench to the car to read the broadcast, then return to his bench to get the parts that car needed, and return again to the car to install them.

John #29964

[John H.]

Re: Number interpretation: grease pencilled

Juliet -

Don't know what the reverse carbon numbers are on the Order Copy - they probably have something to do with a shipping code, as that's what that sheet was used for. The number on the valance is probably due to the original one numbered for your car being wrong (damaged, wrong color, etc.) and the next one also happened to be the same color, so they used it instead. Although the sequencing systems in assembly plants take many forms, lots of things happen from day to day that require manual intervention, and you'll see any number of strange things that don't make sense unless you've lived with the systems every day.

John