Goathill (the continueing story?)

[Howard Nardick]

might be those two pages in the Driveline NM *NM*

[Myron Sleeva]

Never underestimate the power of the advertising $ *NM*

[Mark #28455]

GO FIGURE!!!!!

The members of the NCRS supposedly control the NCRS, yet despite MANY members getting SCREWED by certain advertisers (like G#^^ H%^*, Chic(&^ Corv(*&^ and others) OUR NCRS keeps running their ads. Probably something about having been paid in advance. Hemmings Motor News on the other hand does threaten advertisers with pulling their ads if they appear to be screwing people.

Mark

[Dick W.]

Re: GO FIGURE!!!!!

I believe that if you bother to look, GH has not had an ad in the Driveline in the last two issues.

[Richard S.]

Re: GO FIGURE!!!!!

Well that's good news....isn't it Dick. Is that just a coincidence....or are you trying to say that someone made a conscious decision on behalf of the NCRS to refuse their advertisement. Was this done to protect the membership?? Does anyone know??

[Joe L.]

Re: GO FIGURE!!!!!

Rick, et al-----

Policing something like this is a VERY difficult sort of thing for NCRS to do. Certainly, some folks may have received poor service from Goat Hill. We have heard such reports here quite often. Still, this represents a VERY small sampling of the folks that have probably dealt with Goat Hill. It's possible that there have been many that have been satisfied. For the NCRS to monitor this board and use information provided here as the sole source of information to determine who can advertise in the Driveline and who cannot does not seem reasonable to me.

There are appropriate controls that anyone that purchases anything from Goat Hill (or, any other firm) has at their disposal to prevent problems. To wit:

1) Use only a credit card to purchase an item. If possible, use a "virtual account number" which some credit card companies provide and encourage. Through this process, limit the amount for the charge to the amount agreed upon + shipping;

2) Instruct the seller that no charge is to be made until the item ships. Further instruct that it's against federal law in most cases to charge a credit card before an item ships;

3) If the item is not received within a reasonable shipping time after any charge is posted to your credit card account, call the credit card company and lodge a billing dispute. They'll usually reverse the charge and require the seller to prove that they've done what they're supposed to have done. ALWAYS allow a generous amount of time for shipping and know that you do not have to place the billing dispute prior to the time that you pay the bill that the charge appears on;

Other strategies for dealing with Goat Hill:

1) Goat Hill has some great stuff. However, purchase ONLY on a cash-and-carry basis at swap meets/car shows. They go to many and usually have a pretty good inventory with them. No part to "carry" = no cash or credit card to Goat Hill. Period.

2) Many of the Corvette parts vendors carry Goat Hill products and also stock the parts. So, purchase from them and let them worry about dealing with Goat Hill. I just DARE Goat Hill to mess around with "The Doc"!

Follow the above procedures and one will never "get bit".

[Kevin M.]

Re: Goathill (the continueing story?)

You guys forget Rob Musquetier lives in The Netherlands he can't pick it up in person so he trusted whoever took his money to send him his purchase. His dedication to his car and club is outstanding. I read all the time the difficulty he faces getting parts for his car and the others over seas. I can't imaging the gouging he was going to take in shipping probably increased the price two fold. So a little pressure from anybody that meets up with Goat Hill in person on Rob's behalf might help a fellow NCRS member out. Can't get to Long Beach myself for awhile.

Kevin

[Rob M.]

Re: Goathill (the continueing story?)

hi Don,

You have a private mail to see if you could indeed help us out providing a happy end on this matter...

greetings and may thanks in advance,
Rob and Sander.

[Mark #28455]

That assumes we know there's a problem!

Your advice about using credit cards for purchases is OK for all transactions, but do we now use a virtual account number for all transactions - after all, if we are kept in the dark about the bad guys how do we know when to take the extra steps?

Cancel the charge? Depending upon the state, the laws vary regarding rights to cancel purchases. While you can cancel the charge, you may not be able to cancel the order. If the seller wants to dispute it, you may end up in small claims court. If you are out of state, how much are you going to pay to show up in court just to lose anyway? Sometime ask me how I know - it's a long story!

Only buy parts at a show - then why bother having a "Driveline" - just go to the shows!

It's not just Go*t Hi)), how about Chica&* Corve&&e, Rom@o Engineering, and others. The NCRS is a club, the purpose of a club is to serve the members, the "Driveline" is OUR publication. There should be some appeal process within the NCRS to file a complaint and if enough complaints turn up then something has to happen. Even E-bay has a feedback rating system.

By the way has ANYBODY had a good experience to share about a Go@t Hi)) purchase that was completed by mail or phone?

Mark

[Mark #28455]

I gave up on the Driveline years ago

By the time I got it, all the good stuff was either gone or the ads were reruns from prior months and the seller acted like I was nuts calling about a part he sold 6 mos ago. I would rather the NCRS let me cut $10 off my membership dues and just opt out of getting the Driveline.

I understand the difficulty with lead times, etc so no need for a big dissertation, but as discussed here many times before, we need to step into the 1990's and make the driveline web based.

Mark

[Mark #28455]

Oh no, that'll cost money

Then again, how many thousands of dollars did the NCRS donate to charity each year for the past 10 years (from the interest on our membership dues, etc.) instead of re-investing it into upgrading the services provided to the members.
Mark

[Joe L.]

Re: That assumes we know there's a problem!

Mark-----

1) Yes, use virtual account numbers for every online or telephone transaction with any seller that you aren't 100% sure about. It's very easy to do;

2) I'm not talking about cancelling a PURCHASE. I'm talking about putting a CHARGE into billing dispute if you don't receive the item within a reasonable time after the charge is posted to your account. Since it's a violation of federal law in most cases to charge a credit card account for a part before it's shipped, it doesn't matter what state you're in. The exceptions under federal law are quite limited. They include things like "drop shipped" parts in which a seller collects the funds but someone else ships the parts (like the manufacturer on the sellers order). Nevertheless, you can always put a charge into billing dispute if the part does not arrive within a reasonable period of time (and, I don't mean on the 9th day when UPS shipping time to your location is 8 days; I mean if you haven't received an item, say, 30 days after the charge was posted) . If the part arrives, you simply call the credit card company and take the charge out of billing dispute. I DO NOT RECOMMEND using the billing dispute procedure for parts that you are just unsatisfied with. Take that up with the seller and return the parts for credit if they so authorize. If no credit is received in a reasonable amount of time, then put the charge into billing dispute. Making a charge to a credit card for unshipped parts is not only a violation of federal law, it may also constitute fraud. I would not worry in the slightest about such a seller filing a small court claim.

3) I really don't think that NCRS has any obligation or responsibility to "police" advertisers. Do you get that service with any other organization that publishes print advertisements? For another thing, NCRS is, primarily, a volunteer organization and it's not a for-profit organization.

4) Follow the procedures I outlined previously and you protect yourself from getting burned. Very simple. Ever hear of "caveat emptor"? It applies here.

[Frank C.]

Re: Oh no, that'll cost money

Cool it Mark or you'll be in the same cell with Mike H. !!!!

[Mark #28455]

Hemmings will pull sellers ads if dishonest *NM*

[Lawrence S.]

Re: I gave up on the Driveline years ago

I have had good luck with the driveline relative to purchasing parts.