Holy Cow...revealed after 50 years

[Joseph T.]

Another Corvette National Teasure.

Experimental 0-146256 prototype all cast iron Borg Warner T-10 4 speed.

Just removed after 50 years in the George Moore 54...transplanted in 1957 from the Eb Rose / Carroll Shelby former Sebring car.sold to Eb Rose by Ed Cole for $1.00 after the AMA ban on racing.

The unrestored T-10 and Chevy/Corvette Black Widow Fuelie engine will debut at this years Bloomington Special collection...for all to see and study. For those of you who appreciate unrestored vintage parts..this is a gem.

A real time capsule. Borg Warner's research of their archives have found early T-10 documents they have committed to sending me to display with the transmission.

An airbrushed GM parts buck photo of this type experimental T-10 can be seen on page 249 of Noland Adams book Corvette American Legend book #4.

Joe Trybulec

[Loren L.]

Joe, is there any sort of assembly

stamping on it? Normally found on the left rear of the MAIN case, starting with a "W".

[Joseph T.]

Re: Joe, is there any sort of assembly

Loren...

WC1072

March 10th 1957 day shift...

The AS1 was drawn up in Dec. 1956, so the time period is right. The tag on the case is the assembly tag and the "WC1072" translates to a build date of March 10, 1957 on day shift ( per Borg Warner Engineer..e-mail received today ).

I don't remember if transmissions were included..but..Art can confirm from his documents..that parts were being sent to Fred Warner at the Sebring Motel..to help keep the Corvettes dialed in...for the March 23rd 1957 Sebring race. Probably to repair the Nassau cars being used as practice cars and to update the two new cars upon arrival...as shown in some Jack Knabb photo's taken in the hanger.

Lets hope Jack comes to Bloomington to share some history.

Joe

[Joseph T.]

Re: Holy Cow...revealed after 50 years

Typo...National Treasure..not National Teasure..although that is kind of appropriate to the lead up to its display in June.

Got too excited..when typing.

I was told when I bought the car years ago..that the transmission was special.

I was not expecting the O dash experimental casting.

That was a great surprise.

Joe

[Art A.]

Re: Joe, is there any sort of assembly

There are many items in the extensive "race' program Work Order and as I recall trannies were one of them.

Art

[Gary C.]

Early T-10 at Bloomington in late 80's

Joe, Pervis of Springfield Bloomington fame - had a 28XX or 29XX '57 VIN frame with early T-10 in it displayed in the Special Collection at Bloomington, Il. Couldn't find a picture, but will keep looking. Gary....

[Verle R.]

Re: Early T-10 at Bloomington in late 80's

Joe,

I'll be over today to haul off that old cast iron.
Scrap prices are pretty high now days.

Verle

[Joseph T.]

Re: Early T-10 at Bloomington in late 80's

Gary..thanks..

If anyone has access to pictures of or information on the early 1956 / 1957 T-10's I would appreciate hearing and seeing what you might have.

There are some early T-10's out there and it would be nice to log the data for the future.

The data might reveal some trends of production. I would write an article for the restorer if enough material surfaces.

My survivor 57 #4353 had its original T-10 and I remember the assembly date was in May.

I know there were early ZF 4 speeds used prior to the T-10's

Joe Trybulec

[Joseph T.]

Re: Early T-10 at Bloomington in late 80's

If anyone has an extra engine stand that they would lend.. I am looking for a good way to display the Eb Rose / Carroll Shelby Black Widow engine and experimental T-10 as a unit...at this years Special Collection.

479-435-1855

Joe

[Don Y.]

Re: Early T-10 at Bloomington in late 80's

Joe,
My '57 has the original T-10 intact. It is currently dissassembled for overhaul on my workbench. I can provide any info you wanted on it. My car's VIN is 5899, Mid-August '57 production car.

[Joseph T.]

Re: Early T-10 at Bloomington in late 80's

Don

There should be an assembly date stamp on the vertical rear boss of the main case on the drivers side ( like WGxx72 ). There should also be a casting mark in what appears to be an elongated oval shape on the passenger side.

These markings should help identify the units timeframe frame. I suspect your box would have an aluminum tailshaft which should also have a casting date..on the passenger side if I recall. The casting date on the May unit in #4353 was April 15th.

When you get a chance..please e-mail me with your findings. Photo's too would be great.

Since you have your unit apart for an overhaul..also look inside the drivers side maincase cover. There may be another mark there as well..

Regards,

Joe

[Patrick H.]

Re: Holy Cow...revealed after 50 years

Joe,

I'm probably not the only one to think this question, but I don't mind being the first to ask...

After 50 years, why did you now decide to remove it?
Just wondering. The question keeps running through my head, and maybe by asking it that will stop.

Patrick

[Joseph T.]

Re: Holy Cow...revealed after 50 years

Pat

I purchased the one owner 15,000 mile George Moore 1954 Corvette some 8 years ago or so. The car had been sitting garaged since 1967 and george and his wife had moved to Colorado to live with their kids. It was time for them to sell their Houston home, the 54 Corvette and make a clean goodbye to Texas.

George and his wife were long time friends with Eb Rose and his wife.

When Eb crashed the former 57 Sebring car George removed the drivetrain and transplanted it into his 54.

That unrestored special drivetrain has been in the 54 until last week when I decided to remove it..and get ready to display it at this years Bloomington Special Collection.

For those who know me...I place a very high regard for unrestored cars and parts..I resisted in touching the 54 up until recently ..but with this being the 50th anniversary of the 1957 Corvette and Fuel Injection..and after an invitation to display the special drivetrain at this years Bloomington Gold Special Collection...I decided to remove the engine and transmission from the 54. The special rear end remains in the car.

While attending the NCRS Kissimmee show this past January..Gary Pronesti had on display an unrestored 57 Chevy Turbo Glide Fuelie Engine. I think more people were interested in looking at that engine than most of the cars being judged.

I believe there is a hunger and great interest in unrestored items as a way for people to touch history.

I was breaking my own rules in removing the engine..but I think now is the time...to celebrate its importance.

I also beleive this years Special Collection will be a once in a lifetime event and collection of 1957 Corvettes, related materials and people who know the cars.

Hope this answers your question.

Joe

[Patrick H.]

Re: Holy Cow...revealed after 50 years

Joe,

I knew the engine had been in the car quite a while based on your previous posts and neither had been touched in quite a while. It seemed in reading your stories that the 54 is/was the "rightful home" of the drivetrain so I was surprised that you decided to remove it.

So does it go back into the 54 after Bloomington?

Patrick

[Joseph T.]

Re: Holy Cow...revealed after 50 years

The plan for the engine and transmission is to show it in its as discovered and as removed after 50 years condition. No cleaning or preparation for Bloomington.

Step two may be to clean the engine to reveal other potential earmarks from that timeframe...maybe show it at Carlisle if Lance is interested.

Step 3 might be to rebuild the engine and make operable..possibly as a running engine display.

During that timeframe..I may decide to re-condition the 54..and then re-install the running Black Widow engine.

Just think..what it must have been like for George Moore to drive a 1954 Corvette powered by a Sebring 57 Fuelie Blackwidow engine and experimental 4 spd. George and his wife also pulled a 16 foot wooden runabout boat behind it. George installed a custom hitch to the 54 to pull the boat. The hitch bar is really cool and it's contour is the same as the rear valance of the car.

When I bought the car..I got the boat too.

Joe