I need your advice, heartbreaker story

[Scott Webb NCRS#33354]

It is a long story so I'll try to keep it brief. After pulling the motor from my '69 350 ragtop. The rebuilder (production) has lost the original block. (it's a long story, I plan to write it up for the NCRS magazine) Anyway, I now have a restamped block bearing a casting number of 3932386. This shows to be the correct casting number for the vintage, it's casting date code is L138 which is only a few months after the vehicle build date. But, the motor is a two bolt main, I'm getting conflicting stories saying this casting was only a two bolt versus it going either way. First question, should it have been originally a four bolt main. (No, I didn't pull the pan, God knows I replay that day over and over) I will likely sell the car since this two month ordeal has emotionally drained me. Should I sell, the rebuilder and I will likely work out a fair split of the loss. Second question, In your opinion APPROX. how much does the "not original motor' issue impact the value, barring any other issues? I know what I am asking is extremely variable and it is really dependent on the rest of the car as well as the prospective buyer, but all things equal what is your opinion?

Thanks and wish me luck, the new millenium has not been good to me yet.

ps. I found out through this, that the build date of the car is the same day as my son's birthday, only 29 years earlier.

[Robert C.]

Re: I need your advice, heartbreaker story

Great Scott!,Scott.. If it were my car, the engine guy would be buying it for full appraised value(with correct block).


Texas Chapter NCRS

[Joe L.]

Re: I need your advice, heartbreaker story

Scott-----

I usually don't get involved in discussions of values for cars and I won't here, either. However, I can tell you that ALL 1969 Chevrolets with 350 cid and a 4 barrel carburetor had 4 bolt main blocks and this, of course, included ALL Corvettes. In fact, Chevrolet actually ADVERTISED this in some 1969 sales literature.

As a matter of fact, though, the GM casting #3932386 block was primarily produced as a 4 bolt block; 2 bolt main versions are RARE. It can easily be converted to a 4 bolt block by simply adding 3 GM #3956686 main caps for the 2,3,4 bearing positions. Drill and tap the block for the outer main cap bolts and line bore/hone and you've got a 4 bolt block. Just exactly like the ones that GM produced.

I can understand why you're upset about the circumstances, but if the car is in otherwise good condition, I wouldn't dream of selling it over the originality of the block. To me, that's silly.

[Jerry Clark]

Re: I need your advice, heartbreaker story

Hi Scott:

Good Lawyer, time , sue for the full appraised value of the car with its original engine plus costs. There is no excuse for this yet it happens way too often.

jer

[Tom B.]

Re: Time to put on the Flak Jacket

Scott,

I take a shellacking every time I get involved in a discussion of this sort (so by now I'm used to it), but here goes for your own information anyway.

I can understand where you're coming from if your desire is to have a numbers matching original block-matching car. If that is still your desire then don't settle for someone else's values. Getting what you want out of the hobby for yourself is what's most important.

The way the buying and selling market has always been for these cars shows the original numbers matching engined-cars to be more valuable than the NOM's. More than likely you will find that out as well if you decide to put your car on the market. From some recent discussions there appears to be a growing consensus that NOM cars are just as valuable as OM cars. I've always believed it was wishful-wannabe thinking but if the buy/sell market will accept those values then the playing field for original and non-original is going to be a level one. But it may be difficult selling that idea to just anyone.

Also, if you have a fair and agreeable way to work out a "settlement" or difference with the shop I would leave the legal action and attorneys to be the all out LAST resort. If you have had any experience with the legal-action side of things before then you will be able to understand what I mean. At the least, get something in writing that you can agree upon. It's amazing how things get "forgotten" when it comes time to settle up. Sorry to hear about your loss, and I hope this has helped. TBarr #24014

[Jeff]

Take the settlement, keep the car and the 2 bolt..

...mains and get on with your life. It's just a damn car. Plastic, rubber and steel. No one died or lost a limb. Maybe someday you'll screw up and wish someone would take it in stride, too, instead of putting the wood to you. And you're better off with 2 bolt mains (where do you think they're gonna go without the other two bolts?) than an align bored block.

JP

[Jerry Clark]

Re: Take the settlement, keep the car and the 2 bo

Hi Jeff:

I have to ask, would your opinion change if this were a somewhat more rare Corvette, say a last year F.I. , L88 or L89 ?

jer

[Dale Pearman]

Re: Take the settlement, keep the car and the 2 bo

Two bolts mains are just fine, unless you want to keep company with Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhart.

Varooom!

[Dale Pearman]

Re: Take the settlement, keep the car and the 2 bo

Two bolts mains are just fine, unless you want to keep company with Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnhart!

Varooom!

[GDaina]

Two Choices Scott.....

Convert the block to 4 bolt main at the rebuilder's expense, or sell the car at appraised value w/matching engine. We place way too much value on a set of numbers, and as Uncle Joe stated, to sell the car just because it does not have the correct date code is just plain silly. Are you building a Bloomington Gold car or is the car a for you to drive and enjoy? You don't need numbers on the block to have a good time. If you want peace of mind, get a block with the correct casting number and casting date, a date within a month of your build date. They are out there. If you need help, I'll help you find one.

You asked what the price difference would be, not much, probably no more than 2K.

[David G.]

Re: Two Choices Scott.....

Scott: How many Duntov cars do you believe have the original engine? A sizeable number are re-stamps. I could give you a list of just the ones that I have personal knowledge of in the midwest. No body cares! I have thought for sometime that the designation should be LLOMWMN, "looks like original motor with matching numbers". Every Corvette resoration shop in country openly advertises their ability to produce a correct block, dates, stampings, etc. They do not go to the some stash to locate the old original motor, they make them. If you are working with a reputable engine shop, you have a simple proposal; Mr. Owner, you find the correct casting date, four bolt main, rebuild it, have the pad correctly(?) stamped and we are even! Then (this is the important part)enjoy the car - wash it, wax it, drive it and smile a lot! Smiling is mandatory.

[Jeff]

Well, I guess I would have to then ask....

...if you had a rare car that derived it's desireabilty almost solely from its rare engine option would you send its very 'essence' to a mass rebuilder? Or would you send it to a specialty shop or better yet not even let it out of your sight?

What's that saying? You get what you pay for? You pay peanuts you get monkies? You get what you deserve? When in Rome... Whatever you wanna call it you have to conduct yourself in accord with how you expect to be treated, what you expect to get and what you expect to pay for what you get.

If you try to save money by going with a production shop, you take a risk. Obviously one of those risks is that your engine is just another brick in their wall, not a specialty item to be coddled and sheltered. If you consider the old saying that if you go with the low bidder, you should add in some amount/factor for insurance and once you do that you'd have enough to just pay the top guy his price to get the job done properly.

But to just focus on your question, would my opinion change if it were and L-88 or 89. The answer is simply, if I had brought it to a production shop, I would be very much more upset, disappointed and mad, at myself and I'd be pleasantly surprised, even amazed if the guy was admitting guilt and offering me a fair settlement. (These days guilt isn't something poeple feel, it's something you have to prove.) But if I had brought to a specialty shop, like my buddy Larry's, and if I explained to him the significance of my original block and it's original pad then I would be absolutely bat-**** berserk and probably violent. I can't stand incompetence any better than you can but I also wouldn't be looking to pay bottom dollar for a rebuild and get Larry's quality and fastidiouness either.

My view is, you take your pick, pay your money, take your chances but there's no free lunch. My view of your view is, no matter how little you pay for lunch you still get to feast...

JP

[Jeff]

On Longuyland they always find their OM...

...must be something to do with the salt air but usually within days of finding a rare car, the original engine turns up in some other guy's barn.

JP

[Everett Ogilvie]

Rare Motors - replaced or counterfeit?

Funny - this original motor thing. I agree with both Jeff and Jerry; seems like the rare motors are affected a bit more in price by being replacements than the base motor cars. Why? Well, take your L89 car for example, the option prices are worth more than the whole rest of the base car. If you are looking at a base car, a correct dated/configured replacement block might change the value of the car by 5 % max? But the guy looking to buy the L89 most likely thinks the replacement block equals counterfeited car. Now the value of the car could be affected by 100 %, if you can't sell it... this sounds pretty close to home as I recently tested the waters by advertising my L89, which has the block decked. The calls were very interesting; for some guys it absolutely killed the car and for others it was not that big a deal - but no one bought the car. Funny how the stamp pad on the block was worth more than the L89 option, which if I remember correctly is a HEAD option, not a BLOCK option. ...that was a little joke... In 20 years I wonder what the status of the stamp pad will be in our hobby.

[David K.]

Re: Two Choices Scott.....

David, I couldn't agree with you more on putting the correct stamp on a correct dated block.Somehow from the beginning I keep hopeing to hear where in the heck the original block is at? On putting the stamps to the motor.Why shouldn't you take advantage of what (half the orig.? motors)already are!