i guess i will not be posting after dec 31 2007

[Wayne W.]

Re: Too Bad more don't understand this

I have resisted commenting on this, but Chris` post hit a chord. I have worked on these cars for more than 35 years and continue to run a shop. I have, and do still, come on here and offer bits of advise and information that is learned from long years of experience. It does me no good, other than the satisfaction of passing on that experience. At the same time, I am in a sense, giving away trade secrets and telling my customers how to fix their own cars. No real difference than Clem`s situation. I was a supporter of Michael Hanson and had all intentions of going away too when the exodus happened. But then, I found out that he wasnt even a member. I believed in what he was trying to do and I loved his contributions, but I thought, what a cheap scape. He like Clem wont even support our organization. Even with all of its fault, NCRS is still the best, and worth being a part of. At the same time, I think anyone should be able to post on this forum, member or not, but thats a decision that will need to be addressed by the members.

[Chuck S.]

Re: You Mess With... You might get back

In an earlier post, I said that CF tries to be equitable in handling vendor/member disputes, but takes the side of the paying vendor until it is indisputable that the vendor is crooked.

At that point, critical threads will continue to be locked if the criticism is harsh, while CF attempts to investigate and arbitrate the dispute. If you continue to post critically meantime, YOU may be gone. If CF finds the vendor is unrepentent, and he is clearly a thief, then HE is gone and CF doesn't want to be reminded of him.

CF still will not tolerate continued harsh criticism of the vendor thereafter; but this in fact, may be due to the moderators holding the discussion very close to the forum label in my experience. I have no problem with they way they do business, because it IS business...further, I maintain an attitude of "caveat emptor" and accept my mistakes without whining.

Clem's expulsion is my Exhibit A...it happens. People get thrown off for various reasons, and it's at the moderator's discretion; some are better moderators than others. As quiet and unassuming as I am (that lump in my cheek is my tongue ), I've come within a gnat's eyelash of being thrown off myself (for artfully and subtlely flaming an ***hole that dearly needed it).

[Chuck S.]

Re: Looks Like... try this one again

What's your point?

I read and liked Mike Hanson, and had great respect for his knowledge...I still remember him fondly. He was not thrown off the TDB for being a NON-MEMBER!!! He was thrown off for not accepting reality as it currently exists...the Serenity Prayer comes to mind. I don't remember Mark Milner, or there being any big stink about his departure...I must have been on vacation.

As far as I know, NCRS' Driveline, like many other periodicals, accepts paid advertising from any vendor that wants to join up. I'm not sure, but I believe at least one (Goat Hill?) has made been "black-balled" from advertising.

Corvette Forum is bought and paid for by vendors; Vendors are CF's cash cow, but CF's reputation is also tied inextricably to their vendor supporter's integrity...they have to take action if one of them is a snake. NCRS expects you to be a big boy just like the rest of the world; don't be looking here for someone to dry your tears, and go after the bully for "licking" you on the playground.

As Jerry Fucillo said, forward your complaints to your NCRS representatives...of course, I'm assuming you have some. You continue this bellyachin' and you're going to experience some good old CF style muzzling...John's a patient guy, but it'll only go so far.

[Dennis C.]

Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an...

...NCRS member, kindly retreat, send in your 35 bucks or give it a rest...
Of course, maybe you're an attorney, in which case, it all makes sense. Let's
file a law suit... Somebody else has to be responsible for my problems...

[Richard S.]

Re: Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an

The $35. plus whatever you pay to be a Chapter member, if you choose to be one, is SUPPORT for the Organization. If you believe NCRS is a good thing....you SUPPORT it. We're all different and we all get different benefits from NCRS....some things we like, some we don't. Some things we like to contribute to or participate in, some we don't. Some like straight axles, some midyears, some sharks, some C4's....it's a big place, lots going on, lots to learn, lots of people to meet, lots of friends to make, lots of sharing to do, lots of organized events to meet up, lots of great memories, lots of fun in your life....the $35. is just SUPPORT for a great Organization.

[Richard T.]

Amen enough is enough, NM *NM*

[Larry P.]

Re: Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an

Perception of NCRS is already, snooty, clicky, better then everybody else.
See examples above, of talking down other sites. This will not help that perception. Big mistake. I agree with member only for Driveline, etc.
Larry

[Sandra Haynes]

Re: Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an

Have read with interest this whole conversation. As a "newbie" with a '62 and not a member (yet), I just want to get a feel for the people on this site. My car was inherited from my husband, I know virtually nothing about it, and I can identify what's under the hood. That gives you some idea where I am at. But, being determined to get the car back on the road (and it will be a major inside-out restoration) I know I will need all the knowledge I can find. Have heard that Corvette owners are snobbish about helping new (ignorant) people, but hope that is not the case here. Just half and hour on this site reading stuff moves me a little further down the road. So after "test driving" this site a little, will probably become a member. As far as the "fat, old and 50+" remark, all I can say is it is a great inducement to lose weight! (Can't do much about the other.)

[Frank C.]

Re: Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an

Sandra....If you do join, WELCOME aboard. You will be a more knowledgable a year from now just reading the posts on this site! I read them every day. There are some members who post with tongue in cheek dry humor so don't take everything said to heart. What seems to upset some members are the persons who don't use the archives for answers to ask a question and a lot of questions had been repeatedly asked and answered MANY MANY times. Welcome Frank

[Sandra Haynes]

Re: Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an

Thanks Frank.......dry humor is my specialty and I have hung around a mechanic's garage enough to think a lot of things are funny.

[Chuck S.]

Re: Chris, I am getting weary... If you are not an

Sandra...You join up; NCRS will make a Corvette expert out of you in no time (funny how time flies when you're having fun).

Frankly, if you want to keep your car, and learn how to work on it and maintain it, I don't see any other viable choice. For Corvettes, NCRS is the "Shining City On The Hill"; otherwise, finding out what you need to know is like feeling around in a dark room. (This is not "shameless bullying"!; I just know how far I've come. )

While you're restoring or maintaining your car, get involved by attending chapter and regional meets; meet your model year Team Leader, and sign up for observer judging...and, of course, we'll be here on the TDB. Four times a year you'll also receive The Corvette Restorer, the NCRS award winning professional quality magazine about nothing but Corvettes, plus you'll get The Driveline, our classified advertising magazine for parts, services, and car.

If you can resist all this just to avoid spending $35/year, then you're just ...well, nevermind, you know what I mean. ;D

[Dennis C.]

Sandra, Agree w/Chuck 20817, please give...

...this organization a "ride"... As a fellow '62 owner, I will try to do what I can to assist your enthusiasm & endeavor. Best, Dennis

[Sandra Haynes]

Re: Sandra, Agree w/Chuck 20817, please give...

You guys are pretty persuasive...my car is a major restoration job and a bit overwhelming. Will have to fast track the learning before I am too old to get in and out of it. The idea of going to meetings is something I had not thought of...living in the wilds of an Eastern Oregon desert, I doubt if there is one for 200 miles, but may check into it. For a number of very sentimental reasons, this car will stay mine and get back on the road again....therefore I may find that I need you all enough to join! Give me a little time....Sandy

[Frank C.]

Re: Sandra, Agree w/Chuck 20817, please give...

Sandra...Take all the time you need, but you won't be sorry you you hooked up with NCRS....Regards Frank

[Chuck S.]

Judging At Meetings...

Is where the majority of NCRS knowledge transfer really occurs.

First, you read the published books about your car; Nolan Adams C1 book would be a good starting place for you. See the NCRS store tab above; members get a discount...another forgotten benefit! You start by learning how your model year should appear regarding exterior body, interior, under-the-hood, and the chassis underneath. Learn the specifications of the various components (hp, fuel injection, carbureted, 4 speed tranny or 3 speed, RPOs).

Meantime, sign up for observer judging at meets; under ideal conditions, you'll get to ask questions...in practice, I find it usually doesn't happen because of time pressure. As you gain some experience, sign up to judge; Team Leaders and chapter judging chairmen select the most experienced from available judging candidates. Don't be discouraged if you're not selected, just keep hanging out, getting "face time", and meeting the guys working. A young judge's best shot is at chapter meets which are usually short qualified judges. If you're youthful and fast, you will be able to clamber around a Corvette as fast as these old geezers...and, at the end of the day, you will be exhausted if you have judged about six to eight cars.

Distance can be a problem...I live in the West Texas desert...it's five hours to the nearest small city in Texas. But, looking back, NCRS has made me well-traveled. I've traveled to national conventions and regional meets, seen and done things in places I never would have gone otherwise.

I ain't going to kid you; anyone wanting to learn to restore a Corvette with entry level mechanical experience is going to experience a lot of discouragement; at times, it's going to take an incredible effort to continue to believe you can finish. At the same time, your husband would be beyond proud of you...it would be an incredible tribute.