'Correct'vs 'Original'

[Dale Pearman]

Re: 'Correct'vs 'Original'

O.K., Lets use the term, "original" and the term, "correct". Being original dosen't meant it's correct. "Correct" is a discriptor coined by NCRS.

Here's an example: One of the "BEST" 1962's I've ever judged has a Duntov AND a four star bowtie award. This car is awsome! The car is a 340 hp and the correct generator is a 2268. That's what the AIM calls for and the Judging Manual agrees. This car was built with a 2174 generator! So in this case the original component isn't correct! Also on this original car the seat belts aren't correct and the convertible top tabs aren't correct. All this stuff is original!

This happens all the time! I've sen lots of original stuff on many cars that isn't correct!

Go figure!

Varooom!

[Dale Pearman]

P.S.

On the other side of the coin, you can get all the "correct" stuff you want from reproduction houses but it ain't original!

Varooom

[Reba Whittington]

Re: BOWTIE JUDGING 1999

Having been a Bowtie judge for several years, I have found like Dale that the standard varies with team leaders. Perhaps NCRS does need to address the issue of parts removal and reinstallation.

A car does not have to be 100% original. Last year a 1969 lost originality on the dash panels and center console because they had been removed to fix an A/C problem. However, the car still received 4 stars because of the 85% rule.

I feel that the present percentage of originality demanded is more than fair. Mechanical and Chassis sections allow for more replacements because of hoses, belts, filters, etc. Don't forget the purpose of Bowtie is to teach us about the cars. Who is to say that the owner re-installs a piece as it was when he/she removes it? I have judged many a restored car where the owner swears that he did the paint or finish or installation EXACTLY as it was, but it is not close to what is in the judging guide.

[Reba Whittington]

Re: 'Correct'vs 'Original'

I agree with you and Jack. In a major Corvette publication, I once saw an ad for a "numbers matching" 1967 coupe with a 454 engine.

[Jeff]

You are right, Jack and Sung to the tune of...

You are right, Jack, I was being negative and even I hate when I do that. If some folks want to write rules and others folks want to sumbit themselves and their cars to those rules, what the hell does that have to do with me?

If I had bought that C1, I wouldn't have had it judged. If I ever get my 61 back together, I won't have it judged. I won't have my C3 judged either, so why would I care about the Bowtie standards? Whatever the folks who actually participate in the process want to do should (and does) govern.

Sung to the tune of "This Land is your Land":

This Club is your Club. This Club is my Club. From Bowtie judging, To the Duntov A-ward. This Club is your Club. This Club is my Club. This Club was formed for you and me...

This Club is your Club. This Club is my Club. From the newest member, To the oldest Geezer, This Club was formed for you and me...

From plug-fouling Big Blocks, To FI small blocks. This Club was formed for you and me...

From Big Brake Tankers To Base Automatics, This Club was formed for you and me...

From fading drum brakes, To leaking disc brakes, This Club was formed for you and me...

From Trailer Queen cars, To Daily Dri-vers This Club was formed for you and me...

From solid axle tramp, To breaking half-shafts This Club was formed for you and me...

JP

[Dale Pearman]

Re: You are right, Jack and Sung to the tune of...

Now THAT tune really DOES bring tears to my eyes!

Rev. Varooom!

[Dale Pearman]

Re: 'Correct'vs 'Original'

I bought some "original" owner's cards from Ed Gurdjian with my name typed in!

Dale.

[Big Block George]

U da man, Jeff.....

we ought to post a subject and see who has the best verse.

[Chuck S.]

"You may be right...I may be crazy..."

Jeff,

Too much!

I believe you have deposed Tom Barr, and ascended to the throne as "Bard of the Board".

Chuck Sangerhausen

[Jeff]

Chuck, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn...

...so Tom is safe and secure at the top of the musical heap. I am so un-musically inclined I have trouble playing the radio.

JP

[Dale Pearman]

ODE TO MY 62 FUELIE

Back in 1990 I wrote a beautiful sonnet to my 62 driver and set it to music. I'm looking for the lyrics now and will post them when found. (Really)

Rev. Varooom!

[Loren L.]

Re: Give me a break...

Ever wonder "WHY" those who are going to do "Flight Judging" to get the points for their hats are NOT REQUIRED to AT LEAST BE IN ATTENDANCE ON "BOWTIE" judging day? I have, and I've been asking those in charge of the process for 6 years. The hope is that they would understand how the cars were built - NOT how they were RESTORED. You get non-answers that can be easily converted - with VERY LITTLE imagination - to "We don't want to confuse them with the facts. The best example that I can offer off the top opf my head was an original 1960 bought to Steamboat Springs by Roy Johnson of Arkansas - LOVED THAT CAR - mainly because it was the only straight axle car offered for Bowtie at that meet (that I recall) AND the fact that Roy had NOT noticed that St Louis had installed SIX GASKETS behind the right side courtesy light switch to make it make contact!! I thought the car should have been REQUIRED REVIEW FOR ALL TRAILER QUEEN/REPRODUCTION IS US JUDGES. Now I'll get off the horse and let him eat........

[Tom B.]

Re: Give it a 99

I liked it, too. Has a good beat, and it's easy to laugh to. Actually, I was thinking more of a duo like the "Heckle and Jeckle" of the board, but I think that's already been reserved for "someones" else.

Also, no one's told me they ever liked the stuff I write, Chuck. It's usually met with a roaring silence. Thanks for the compliment. I just always figured I was unpopular with the off-board email clique. TBarr #24014

[The Rev.]

I LIKE YOUR STUFF TOM

But then I have no taste!

Varooom

[The Rev.]

Re: Give me a break...

Excellent thinking and well stated Loren. I agree with you 100%. Flight judges would knock off a point while noting, "Too many gaskets-courtesy lamp switch". Most of us flight judges wouldn't know how to judge a REAL unmolested Corvette if we saw one.

Roy Sinor is addressing this problem. At the Sun Valley Nationals a special school was held after bowtie judging. A successful 4 star 62 was put on display and I had the priviledge of leading a school on bowtie judging. All judges were welcome BUT only the bowtie judges who had already judged the car showed up. I guess a few other folks were also in attendance. Many erroneous calls were discussed much to the amazement of the judges who called them. This was the 62 that had the "WRONG" generator, convertible top tabs, seat belts, air scoop gasket, etc.etc. Turns out NONE of that stuff was wrong. It all came on the car NEW. This Corvette had endured a visit to the paint repair line at St Louis and I want to tell you that exterior body color was ALL OVER the driver's side of the engine compartment. No commercial body shop could EVER stay in business doing such sloppy work. Flight judges would have deducted 30 to 50 points at least for something that was original to the car!

I'm with you in feeling that anyone wanting to judge a Corvette in NCRS should gain a certain level of expertise by hands-on learning with an experienced judge using an ORIGINAL unmolested unrestored Corvette as an example. I also feel that this wannabe judge should pass a knowledge test before being turned loose. The present judging schools are super for the material they cover but we should take the schools to the next level of CAR knowledge.

I sincerely hope that Roy continues in this direction.

Dale.