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The numbers on the block of my car match all other documentation. BUT how do I know that they were not redecked and then restamped?
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Alan, post a high resolution picture of the deck and we'll take a look.
Harry -
Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Thats a good idea, will do!Comment
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You don't!
Unfortunately, there have been at least several THOUSAND restamps done. While a few people may be able to figure it out, the majority of the good ones go unnoticed! If yours is a poor one, then posting it may be of help. If yours is a good one, then it is unlikely anyone will be able to tell. There are a few people with extensive databases of original stamps who can compare it to theirs and tell you if it looks consistent, but they don't do it for free ($3000 was a number I heard being mentioned) even then, there's no true guarantee.
The other thing in your favor is that it's a small block car. Not to say that they aren't restamped, but I would bet there are a LOT more restamped 400, 425, 435, L89 and L88 cars on a percentage basis. I'll go out on a limb and bet that over half of the L88's out there do NOT have their original stamping.
MarkComment
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327 /350 stamp ?
Well, then maybe I just take it at face value and go with the flow.Comment
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Re: You don't!
In the case of the L88's, I'd go a lot farther out on the same limb and guess it's more like 80 plus %. Of all the other cars I looked at and researched when I was doing my L88 in the '80s I only saw one car, a '69 that I felt strongly had THE original motor.Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Just a reality story, one of many I'd say......
I bought ny 59 in 1986, and was armed with info to check the engine#'s. The car had a 1961 519 block, CU dual 4's 270 HP. So I knew it wasn't original to the car, and loved the car so I bought it even though nom. In 1995 I had to rebuild the engine(piston slap), and was thinking of buying a correctly dated 519 and do that one, and sell the 61 block. Decided against and did the 61 block over, still in the car.
When all this was happening, I noticed a Driveline ad for 2 61's for sale, "matching #'s". Guess what one of them was.... Right, the car that my 61 motor belonged to!
I called the guy and asked about the car. He said, "Yup, original motor"! I said , "Well, I don't think so because I have YOUR motor in my 59". He said "Sh_t, I had this car for years and couldn't find the original so I had this one restamped". Today the unsuspecting owner may have what he/she thinks is the original motor, but was likely deceived.
Even if someone discloses and sells a car with a record that it's engine is restamped, there is no way of guaranteeing subsequent owners will know the truth. Obviously as the car is continuously sold, that info may get lost.
That's why when I found my 62 a few months ago owned by a guy who had it 35 years, and cleaned decades of grease and dirt off the engine id's and found them to be correct, I felt I hit the lottery. These finds are dwindling, and this is the kind of occurance that is getting scarce as more time goes by.
FWIW,
Rich Mozzetta #13499Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
So if it's easy to be deceived and 80% are not original how could stating you have the original engine really create value to anyone with even a little knowledge?Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
The key is "anyone with even a little knowledge" These are the people that buy a car sight unseen on eBay then throw a fit when they find out too late that it's a phony.Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Hi Alan,
80%?
Just to clear up some possible confusion, I never said 80% are not original, I think that was someone else's opinion. I know of only "one" that is not original, the 61 I spoke of.
Value?
That's not it. The point I'm making is that "I" know what I have. It's not a value thing. When I bought my 59 I knew it did NOT have the original engine, and I was fine with that. The 62 was special to me because I found something historical. I can show photos of the greasy dirty pad before and after cleaning it off showing the numbers. Maybe that'd help value, maybe not. I'm really not concerned with that. If I ever sell the 62 it'll probably go to some guy that likes the color combo, or had one when he was 22, or for his wife's birthday or whatever, and never open the hood to check numbers. Put my car in it's present state next to a restored car with a questionable stamp pad, which would I prefer? Call me crazy but I'd take my car because it's special to me. I will get more enjoyment taking it apart, learning how it was built, and along the way see the flaws and oddities that may not be in the judging manuals, and return it to the way it was, only newer looking. I am fortunate to have the ability to do that.
The charter of many antique vehicle clubs is to restore the vehicle "...as the factory intended". That means if the factory intended a car to have the number on it's engine match the serial number of the car, then that's what's happening. Restamping, right or wrong, happens. If someone is buying a restored car because the numbers match, hmmmm. If they buy it because it's factory fresh looking and just so happens the numbers match, great. Knowledge is understanding what is in front of the buyer, real or counterfeit.
As always boils down to "Buyer Beware".
IMHO,
Rich Mozzetta #13499Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Rich, I like your thinking and appreciate the response. I like my car too. The more I work on it the more it's, well, mine.Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Another thing worth mentioning. My 68'cars Build date is around 10/4/67. It is a very early serial number. My cast dates; heads, block, manifold, water pump are all around I147 or Sept/14/67. Less than 3 weeks from the car build date. Is this too close?Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Nope, not too close - that's "typical"; time spans varied widely, depending on production schedules and inventory levels.Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Thats what I figure. My thoughts are that since it was a new model and no more than a few weeks into production they would probably be cutting it close on those initial deliveries. I know tooo well from my work experiences.
Can anyone else please comment on this as it is kinda critical as insight to validate my numbers to myself?Comment
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Re: 327-350 hp original stamp???
Alan,
What is the car vin#, engine casting#, cast date at rear top, and stamped #'s on the right front pad on the block?
Here's mine....
62 (20867S100483), my est build Sep6,1961(about 5 weeks into production, 50th car in Sep)
eng 3702870, cast H251(Aug 25,1961)
vin/assy stamp "2100483"(small script) F0828RC(bigger script)"(250hp,4 speed manual)
Math says the car was built about 9 days after the engine was assembled, engine assembled 3 days after it was cast. Note also Labor Day weekend is in those 9 days.
RichComment
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