Yes another paint question...sorry

[Greg L.]

Okay, I have found two places to get what they claim is the correct 1969 Cortez Silver lacquer and one will even ship to Canada. They are both PPG dealers but one,(autocolorlibrary)repackages theirs. I was all set to order some but then thought that I'd check the archives to if there was any info on them or Wesco.

What I did find is that it looks like the PPG lacquer flake size is too large to be correct and that only Dupont has the correct flake size...but Dupont doesn't make lacquer anymore so what is a guy to do in a situation like this because either paint will be wrong. I asked the guy at Wesco about the "large" flake size and he says that it will be correct for the 986 code but I now have my doubts. Once again I find myself stuck between a rock and a hard place with this metalic paint.

The way I see it here are my options......

1) Take their words on it and order some lacquer up and hope for the best which will be about a $1000 gamble.

2) Find some original paint on my hood or door, polish it up real nice and have it scanned locally which will not be lacquer...probably be Dupont and then hope I can of find some one that can make it look like lacquer...good luck up here.

3) Again, find some original paint on my hood or door, polish it up real nice and then drive down to Wesco(a days drive each way)with it for them to scan and hopefully match it right down to the proper flake size.

4) Find some way to get correct size flakes into the PPG lacquer.

5) Sell the car and spend the next few weeks picking up all my hair that I've pulled out.

6) Find someone's Cortez Silver lacquer paint code mix that has passed judging and compare it to Westo or Autocolor library formula.

Number 4 I think would be my best choice if in fact that can be done. Any more ideas on this one guys???

I remember now why I strayed away from lacquer in the first place...I think it was the flake size that turned me away... If I can find a way to over come that then I'll be set.

Thanks again guys.

Greg Linton
#45455

Be nice Chuck...

[Lyndon S.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

Cant you just order a quart and shoot a test panel and see if you like the results from the one that has the large flakes?

[Lyndon S.]

[Allan J. Wicklund]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

PPG seems to be the most available Lacquer. Doing the entire car fresh should not present to much of an issue. Who can determine the Flake size these days? My car is painted with Lacquer and I'd much prefer Urethane. It's much more durable and gives a very Lustrous shine. Also, it is a more serviceable paint requiring less maintenance. Al W.

[Chuck S.]

GOOD IDEA...!!!!

But, only buy a pint...you'll save a little, and the mix will be just as accurate. In fact, I would try the PPG first with no changes...you may find it's dead nuts on with no changes; one customer's poor result could be the result of another technician's mistake (wrong size metallic added?). I'm assuming you have an original paint area for comparison. If you find the flake too large, then take the original paint area to the spectrometer and they can match it.

AutoColorLibrary.com used to be exclusively PPG. Now, they've started a new line of slightly cheaper paint to appeal to hobbyists. They claim to continue to sell both (I've asked), but PPG doesn't get nearly the presentation on their website that it once did. They will quote you prices on PPG products, but you will find they are exactly the same, to the penny, as those you'll get at your local PPG dealer. Now, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out, if you're not getting a healthy price discount online, there is no point in paying high-priced shipping, cuz paint ain't light!

Also, AutoColorLibrary no longer has the PPG product sheets on the ACL site...you have to go directly to the PPG site. Maybe these two are not divorced, but they appear to be in counseling. The problem may be in ACL's previous discount pricing PPG products; online discounting is getting to be a touchy subject with many big brand suppliers...the little dealers are screaming. Anyway, ACL may be just simply repackaging PPG product as their gearhead brand; but once more, if you get into trouble and need technical support or warranty backup, the more expensive PPG is your best bet. JMHO.

I am also about to buy color for my car, and I have about decided to drive to a PPG dealer in Houston for the product. ACL's long suite was once implied to be exact color matches of old classic colors by an old PPG expert. Now, I'm not so sure that's true anymore, or would make any difference in my case...My color is Code 910, Classic White...suppose they'll be able to find an offset in Houston?

[Greg L.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

I had thought about having a little bit shipped to me for a test run but I feel that Wesco would be the best choice but they do not ship...at all. They also have no way to spray a test panel and have it shipped so short of driving down for a test sample that's not really an option. I also talked to a guy at Wesco today and he says that they can't scan lacquer(only modern paints) so there is not point in me driving down with a hood or door for them to scan either. He also mentioned that there are three sizes of flakes, fine, medium, and large with large being not as large but closer to 70's metal flake..ya that would be cool... I asked him about my paint and he says that Cortez Silver 986 code calls for A LOT of aluminum, a touch of green and the fine flakes so that is as small as I can get for flakes....just not sure if it is small enough. He also mentioned that the 986 code is call "Grey Poly" now so I'm not sure if that matters or not...

AutoColorLibrary might have just as good of paint but it is a lot cheaper than Wesco and if they have started a cheaper line then maybe that is why.

"Who can determine the Flake size these days?" Well I couldn't untill I started reading about it in the archives and then had a look at my rims and the original flakes are very subtile compared to what you see on new cars so I suspect that a paint judge could tell. I forget who mentioned it in the archives but he said that if you had some cars lined up of the same color that he could probably tell which ones were scanned and which ones were ordered from a paint chip. I'm not there but I feel that I could tell if the flakes were too large now...but maybe it's just my imagination...

Any other ideas?

[Chuck S.]

Describing Metal Flake Size...

Is subjective...if you can't shoot test panels for comparison to the original paint, then you won't have any idea what you're getting until you've committed to a gallon or two of paint.

To get test panels, you have two separate problems, at least one of which must be solved: (1) Work the shipping problem by other means so you can spray test panels yourself, or (2) Make arrangements to have different flake size test panels painted by a local painter in the US and shipped to you for comparison.

I'm out of ideas...this is like one of those Mario games.

[Greg L.]

Re: Describing Metal Flake Size...

Mario games...ya you got that right!

I feel like the little guy with the Elmer Fud cap on jumping around from pole to pole just trying to stay alive!!!

[Allan J. Wicklund]

Re: Describing Metal Flake Size...

It's called, "Paralysis by Analysis"! Once again I add, go with Urethane! Al W.

[Lyndon S.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

Get a hemmings and look for Hibernia auto paints or look them up on the web. They can get you the paint like you want in Lacquer

Kelly

[Joe M.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

Hibernia uses PPG lacquer.

On CF there is reference to "Barry and Linda's" site where there is a paint formula listed for milano maroon and it references flake size. So use the flake size Barry used with the Cortez formula.

I'm searching as well but for another color, plan to shoot dupont bc/cc, ppg bc/cc and ppg lacquer and see which comes closest. I do want to stick with lacquer though. The ppg store near me sent out all it lacquer to another store and I can only get a factory pack black lacquer from them. So while PPG sells lacquer, you may have to search around for a retailer that carries it.

A couple of years ago Hibernia quoted me 400$/gal for honduras maroon.

Joe

[Joe M.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

http://lbfun.com/Corvette/Tech/vette...%20formula.pdf

site with the paint formula which references the flake size...ppg code for that smaller flake is listed as dmd631. So ask the ppg guy to use that flake in his formula. Worth a try.

pm sent

[Lyndon S.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

Oh, well

[Tim E.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

The flake size in the PPG lacquer I used on my '66 Laguna Blue passed judging at the San Antonio nationals in 2006. I kept a cut-out section of the original paint that I use for comparison and there is no detectable difference to me. Yes, I received a deduction for the subsequent fiberglass repair!

You may have heard of the common recommendation to spray a 50-50 mixture of clear and color for the last couple coats to reduce the chance of buffing into the metallics later. I don't know if this is the case for silver, but that is detectable and alters the behavior of the colors that make up Laguna Blue and did lead to a deduction. It sounds like you're trying to maximize your points for color and body paint so I'd avoid that "recommendation".

[Greg L.]

Re: Yes another paint question...sorry

Thanks for the info Tim. The more I look into it the more positive leads I'm getting on the flake size (fine aluminum) of the PPG lacquer so your info also helps.

I have heard about the 50/50 clear/color final coats and was going to go that route but after what you said about it I'll have to look into it a bit more first. I like the idea of a clear mix to help avoid buffing into the flakes later on but not so much if it is detectable. I wouldn't think it would be as noticable on a lighter car light silver but maybe it is...