Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

[Mike T.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Ed - You have a couple great looking cars. Hope the weather clears soon so you can hit the track. What's the rear gear in the Corvette?

[Patrick H.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Just remember - if you don't post a video, it didn't happen.

[Michael G.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Just remember - if you don't post a video, it didn't happen.

........what Patrick said!

[Stuart F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

If you are only concerned with drag racing, that's just one thing However, on the open road, a lot depends on rear axle ratio. I have a 3.36 in my SHP 63 convertible and it is more than capable of holding it's own with the new gens to the point of whether the driver is nuts or not.

Stu Fox

[Duke W.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Most road warrior faceoffs were from a rolling start. Late one night in the summer of '69 I had one with a 440 Charger on a desserted freeway north of Milwaukee. From 30 MPH he got the jump, but I caught him by 100, and as we approached 130 he ran out of revs, so I shifted to fourth gear and walked away (340 HP SWC, CR 4-speed, 3.08 axle), and the handful of faceoffs I had with FI Sting Rays were all dead heats.

One of my favorites was a faceoff with a new, red '65 XK-E coupe northbound on the US 99 viaduct through Seattle in 1965. We were both returning from the Saturday night drag races at Puyallup where we had seen each other, but were unable to faceoff, so when we ran across each other on the Viaduct...

From 40 MPH (I was in first gear) I instantly and easily pulled away - no contest! I think a 300 HP Corvette would have been an even match.

BTW, my best quarter mile run was 14.42 at 102 MPH with open exhaust cutouts. Getting the car launched with the 3.08s was a joke as any attempt at a clutch drop just lite up the Michelin X radials, so I just eased it out of the hole with a little clutch slippage then floored the throttle. I shifted into second halfway down and went through the lights at about 6500 in second. With a 4.11 I probabaly could have gotten into the high 13s at about the same trap speed.

Duke

[William F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

'71 Buick had lowered compression and down on horsepower. compared to the '70 version and was not the same animal. If your L79 has good gears-3.70:1, say and can pull to 6000 strong, go for it. You're lighter and have honest horsepower. I think you have a good chance. Shut him down!

[William F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Duke,
Agree some of the V6's even in Hondas and Toyotas are fast for what they are, but won't turn low 14's or high 13's at over 100 mph.

[Stuart F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Duke;

Sounds so SO much like my experiences through the years. The 3.36 is a good gear for 30 on up which was my favorite match up. Back in the day most everyone was running either 3.70's, 4.11's or even 4.56's. They still wanted to "mix wheels" and I finally agreed if they would go from 30 up (in my wheel house). I never once lost to a Fuelie. Like I said; depends on how nuts the driver is.

Along this line Duke; which tranny are you running: a BW or a Muncie? Reason I ask is that some of my buds who also ran 3.36's, but in full size cars, were welding up the countershaft thrust washers on the BW's from long winding heat. My Muncie is a bit noisy loafing along like the counter shaft is running loose now with some total 47k on the odometer (original). I used to wind to redline in 1 through 3, but stopped that to save the rods in my original (never been apart) L-76, per your advice. However, 5500 rpm just seems so tame.

How was your SWC at speed? My convert was pretty squirly, specially in the days with bias ply tires, but I did notice a big improvement with the headlights open.

Stu Fox

[Duke W.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

My four-speed is a BW, but it needed a new set of bearings at about 30K miles, which I attribute to spending a lot of time in first gear including hot laps at Kent that required first gear through the double reverse hairpin and acceleration halfway down the lower portion of the course.

With Michelin X radials the car was stable at up to 150, but the steering became numb, and it was reluctant to yaw. At Kent there was a kink at the end of the straight that exited from the dragstrip shut down pavement to the road course. It was blind as the shutdown area was about 1/2 percent upgrade and the road course exit sloped down about the same amount. The first time there in the Summer of '63 on the OE General JetAires, I could not see the apex and lifted, but the next year with the new Michelins, I brought a traffic cone and broom to mark the apex and did it flat at 140 MPH. There were also some bumps so the car skittered a little bit sidewise as I wiggled the steering wheel to the right in small increments to keep the car on the line, but it remained well in control and only a little scary.

I had just graduated from high school and turned 18 that summer of '64.

I touched 150 MPH a handful of times both during daylight hours and night, but I don't recall that having the headlights up of down made any difference in front end lift or loss of steering response.

Duke

[Duke W.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Duke,
Agree some of the V6's even in Hondas and Toyotas are fast for what they are, but won't turn low 14's or high 13's at over 100 mph.

I didn't make those numbers up. A quick Google search led to several magazine road tests, which is where the data came from.

Don't get into a stoplight faceoff with some kid driving his mom's V-6 Accord or Camry. You'll lose! All he has to do is punch the throttle and traction control will make his launch as good as Grumpy Jenkins could ever do.

Duke

[Stuart F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

I used to tell people the story of my last trip to Las vegas from White Sands Missile Range, which was my last stateside assignment while in the Army (fall of 1963). My buddy and I were motoring through Nevada with him at the wheel when we decided to try the first high speed run with my 63. Now this was the era of being nuts, so pushing over 130 with bias ply U.S. Royals just seemed normal. My best recollection, or vision with my eyes popping from there sockets, is that I saw 150 and near redline as we passed a Nevada State Trooper who didn't even blink.

Now, any doubters (and there are bound to be some) will have to take this on faith as my buddy is gone. I trusted him because he did have an SCCA license. As a caveat to this story; we continued to run fast off the desert to a Motel on the outskirts of Las vegas where we parked the car on an incline and made the mistake of pulling on the E brake. The next morning we discovered that the Sintered Metallic shoes had welded themselves to the drums. We had to have the car towed to the nearest Chevy Dealer where they had to torch cut the drums off and replace all the rear brake parts. Oddly, the Service Manager told us we weren't the first that this had happened to and they had the parts in stock to deal with it.

That's another story that you have to take on faith.

Stu Fox

[Jim D.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

I didn't make those numbers up. A quick Google search led to several magazine road tests, which is where the data came from.

Don't get into a stoplight faceoff with some kid driving his mom's V-6 Accord or Camry. You'll lose! All he has to do is punch the throttle and traction control will make his launch as good as Grumpy Jenkins could ever do.

Duke

And hope like he!! it hasn't been modified. Then you'd be humiliated.

[William F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Duke,
I'm going to pull out some Car and Driver mags and fact check you on this one. Maybe I'll be surprised. I'll let you know what I find with references anyway.

[William F.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Michael,
IMHO I think you've got it wrong about where the lots of torque will have the advantage. Torque is the thing that gets vehicles rolling and pulling loads, think diesel trucks. Horsepower comes on at higher rpms for speed. The Buick will have the advantage if race is from standing start with all the torque plus the TH400 with torque converter, unless he spins the tires. I think the higher reving small block has a chance of driving around the Buick from half way on. Think small block would win for sure if race was from rolling start.

[Chuck G.]

Re: Just How Fast Are C2 Small Blocks?

Here's a Buick GS running 13.2's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a_NAEtmNK4