Restoration engine

[Michael W.]

Re: Restoration engine

So now the PC word for restamp is "restoration?". Guess that OK as long as everyone is on the up and up about being a NOM.

If every* other minute detail of a car can be restored without anyone batting an eye, why not the engine stamp pad?

*except trim and VIN tags

[Ralph E.]

Re: Restoration engine

If every* other minute detail of a car can be restored without anyone batting an eye, why not the engine stamp pad?

*except trim and VIN tags

William,
I'm with you. "restoration engine" this is just another fraud. It should be NOM period. Even using the term re-stamp should not be allowed.
My $.02
What is the "new" NCRS definition of a restoration engine anyway?

[Michael J.]

Re: Restoration engine

I find "restoration engine" has useful distinctions over NOM. Yes, it is an NOM, but it has been restored to "appear" as original, just like most all the other parts we put on our cars, as Mr. Ward states. You can't assume everyone who has one is trying to defraud people, that is not true.

[Tom B.]

Re: Restoration engine

Michael ...thats correct. The last 67 produced was presented as restoration engine when sold. Fraud is when re-stamping to make a big block car or a 390 to a 435 car.

[William F.]

[Michael J.]

Re: Restoration engine

Thanks Tom, and since few have weighed in on your original question (What can I expect when it comes to judging?), let me give you my opinion. In looking at the pad, shown above, and assuming the casting date of the cylinder case and configuration are correct for the car (the big parts as Mr. Hulst says), I would say you could lose as few as 38 points (I don't see good broach marks), or as much as 88 points if the judge doesn't think the assembly and VIN stampings are TFP. I am not an expert on those stampings, so, as Mr. Hulst says, it depends on the judge.

[Michael J.]

Re: Restoration engine

[Jim H.]

Re: Restoration engine

My 66 427 was an NOM when I acquired it. No documentation (no build sheets then), but it appeared to be an original BB. I considered the "restoration" route but determined I did not have adequate certainty about it being an original BB. So I located an original 66 427 BB motor 94 vins (3104) from mine and left the engine pad w/3104's vin on it. I had the engine pad checked by Al G for likely authenticity and he called it good. I will hopefully only lose a minor number of vin derivative points, but the rest of the engine will check out for casting, casting date, engine build date, etc. And I've done nothing to allow an owner down the ownership chain to claim the engine is original.

[Michael J.]

Re: Restoration engine

IMO, that is the way to go for a restoration engine, if I could, I would have done that too on my '67.

[Tim E.]

Re: Restoration engine

Michael - From a judging standpoint, the judge does not necessarily care if an engine happens to be a restamp. The judge will be looking at the font size, the character shape, the character spacing, proper ganging, stamp depth, location, and orientation. He looks at the assembly stamping first and makes an all (25) or nothing deduction for that. Then he does the same for the VIN derivative (25, all or nothing). Then he judges the surface finish and machining marks (38, all or nothing). This is where many restamped engines get a deduction because of the difficulty in reproducing broach marks.

If the car originally came with this size engine and the engine in this car has the correct casting number, casting date, and a factory appearing pad stamping & surface, it will judge fine. Tim

[Michael J.]

Re: Restoration engine

I agree Tim, that is the ideal situation theoretically.

[Patrick B.]

Re: Restoration engine

Yes, it does from the ad at Vintage Corvettes. I am assuming it is the '67 silver/blue roadster (gorgeous car BTW), and since I am sort of a poster child for a "restoration engine" (thanks Vinnie), then let me post the picture of the engine pad on that car so people can take a look and make some guesses about how good it looks as a restoration engine and what the judges might think.

The 2 and the 4 in the VIN are the worst characters, and the 0's and maybe the J in the Tonawanda stamp are off a little. The attempt to put rust pits in the pad is hokey in my view. I think most BB's leaked enough oil from the valve covers that original pads clean up very well (unless they were in saltwater boats).

[Kenneth B.]

Re: Restoration engine

[QUOTE=William Ford (50517);749032]

[Ralph E.]

Re: Restoration engine

Still have trouble with "restored engine"
I can understand restoring parts parts on the car. Like restoring the original alternator. You can restore the original water pump. You can restore the original carburetor. You can restore an ORIGINAL engine. But how can you restore a NOM to be "original". To me, if it is a restored NOM, judges are being asked to judge how good a someone can make a fake. Judging the font size, the character shape, the character spacing, proper ganging, stamp depth, location, and orientation is just having a judge verifying how good a counterfeit is being presented.
Each car came with a motor and that should be the only one that can be "restored". Simply stating NOM should be enough. If the car came with a BB and the NOM is a replacement BB so be it. Replicating the original stamping on a NOM should not be allowed, they are just counterfeits.
End of my rant.

[Michael J.]

Re: Restoration engine

The subject of a restoration engine has been controversial to many NCRS members I know. But, the 8th Edition of the Corvette Judging Reference Manual does a good job, IMO, of sorting out the terms and distinctions. For instance, it states as the definition of,

Counterfeit:

"To make an imitation of something else with the intent to deceive or defraud".

For instance, the following would be examples of counterfeiting:
-Repainting an original blue car red and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color.
-Installing a red interior in a car that left the factory with a blue interior and changing the trim tag to make red appear to be the original color interior.
-Replacing the engine of an original small block Corvette with a big block and stamping numbers on it to make it appear to be an original big block engine.
-Replacing the carburetor on an engine with a fuel injection unit and stamping the numbers and suffix code on the block to make it appear to be original.

Vs. to Restore
Restore:"To renew; to put back into existence or bring back to a former or original state".For instance, the following examples represent restorations and are not considered counterfeiting:

• Repainting an original black Corvette with black lacquer paint.
• Installing accurately reproduced black vinyl seat covers in a car that left the factory with a standard black interior.
• Stamping a 435-HP block to conform to the date/serial number of the original 435-HP Corvette in which it was installed.