1959 Power Top System

[Richard M.]

For those interested, I am acquiring a complete Power Top system which I will be installing in my 1959 Corvette. I have had the car thirty years, and because my arthritis in my back and my neck is now getting worse, I decided it's time for some "hydraulic assist" when I raise or drop the top.

PA140173.jpg

Since I have little spare time lately it will take me some time to do this project. When I get free time I'll be tearing into it.

A complete sequential restoration and installation procedure will be pictured here on my PB site.

http://s684.photobucket.com/user/richmz/library/Misc/Power%20Top%20Unit

I began the tear down and will update as the months go by. I restored a 1956 PT system last year which was in much better condition than this one. Some info here with a link to the details in post#2.
https://www.forums.ncrs.org/showthre...ch-Mechanicals

I have my work cut out for me this time

I want to thank John Hinckley again for the inspiration he gave me last year when I was contemplating restoration and repair of that '56 PT project.

Thanks John......(edit.....I think!)

Rich

[Michael J.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Wow! Now that looks like a very ambitious project, good luck with it. The last time I did something like that was on my daughter's '64 1/2 Mustang convertible. It took us a while, and we were soaked in hydraulic fluid by the end, but a good father-daughter bonding project, so hope you have some fun with it too.

[Dan B.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Hey Rich, glad you got this thread up, I'll look forward to continuing to following your progress. You are a brave man Dan

[Roger W.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Good Luck Rich. I know you will produce a very good documentation of this top project. Your other projects have been outstanding.

Roger

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Thanks Gents.

Today I had to go to two shops, first stop was my zinc platers' shop. 2nd was my chrome shop which also restores and flash chromes stainless steel trims. I had a '59 side fender trim that a prior restorer munged up due to a big screw head at the side "S" clip and dinged the trim, along with a kink near the wheel arch while the piece was in storage. This was a NOS trim and I wanted to salvage it. My chrome/trim shop did a full bumper and potmetal set for a '59 and also did a complete bumper set for a '67 recently.

I brought all of the pieces to the zinc plater to get a estimate on restoring this system 100% with both clear zinc and yellow zinc plating. I wanted a ballpark of cost to plate versus me just refinishing with paint. I think I'm going to have everything plated. Even though most of the system is under cover behind the trunk division panel and tucked behind or beside the seats, I feel it will be best and true to form if I have it all plated. Knowing it's original finish will make me feel better.

Here are a few pictures of the pieces that I brought there.

The entire lot.
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This is the group for "clear(silver)" zinc. I'll have to remove switches and some will require complete disassembly to plate the metal parts. I will clean all contacts before reassembly after the plated parts are done.
DSCN3229.jpg

This is the group for "yellow" zinc. I will remove the magnet and the field coil and wire ends. I decided that in order to do the motor end frame I will have to remove the brush plates by drilling the rivets and replacing them later. The bronze bushing will be plugged and masked to prevent the plating from touching it.
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As this will be a part time project I'll update as time continues.

Many more pictures and details of the above parts can be seen here.....

http://s684.photobucket.com/user/richmz/library/Misc/Power%20Top%20Unit/BeforePlating

Rich

[Dan D.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Rich,

I see in your photos the motor wiring is cloth covered. I thought that by 1959 everything was PVC. Most of the change over occurred in the 56/57 time frame. BTW, at least some cloth covered wire is still available. You probably already know this, but antique radio restorers use this. I have bought some in the past, but it my not be exactly correct.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Dan that's a good observation. I'm unsure of the lineage of this PT system. I may find some dates somewhere.

The 56/57 systems used the Push/Pull underdash switch. This one has the above radio toggle switch, so it must be 1958 or later. The motor and cloth covered wires may indicate the timeframe of the build, but many of these pumps were built for other models and marques so it could have been on a shelf for a long time before it's installation.

I have also used the cloth covered wire in my antique boat restorations and is still available through Rhode Island Wiring Service. I may have to place a order for some for this unit.

I rewired much of my 1957 Coronado over the years using the cloth covered wire. This boat had NO fuse protection anywhere and the main harness was a vinyl wrapped collection of the cloth wiring. Much repair like this wire that I replaced on the coil. BTW, I added many inline fuses to protect this old tub.
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[Dan D.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Okay Rich,

Looks good. Thanks for the Rhode Island wire tip. I did not know about this company.

Just wondering, what type of wire was on the 59 Corvette top that you restored last year? Was it cloth covered? Good point on the pump possibly being built much earlier.

Dan

p.s. I still owe you your headlight switch. Have not forgotten you.

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

The wiring on the PT I restored 3 years ago was standard plastic coated wire and appeared to be in good condition with no cracked insulation. The micro-switches were stamped "10-59" for October 1959, I think.

When the PT system operates several times, all of the wires heat up significantly. Rich installed relays to alleviate the heat build up problem. I was going to reuse the original wiring harness, but erred on the side of caution and purchased a new wiring harness from L-L.

[Dan D.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Hi Joe,

The only fabric coated wire Rich has are the motor leads. The others appear to be PVC. I assume the heating you observed was before Rich installed the relays. That keeps the high current out of the micro switches and those wires, but now the relays will carry the high current, as well as the motor and will be susceptible to heating. Knowing Rich I'm sure he sized the relay wires properly to handle the current and not overheat.

I do not believe the original wiring should have heated up that much. There may have been corrosion or bad contacts. With the heating also comes voltage drop, which makes the motor work harder and slower. So I assume you do not have the heating any more. And buying a new harness was a very good idea.

Maybe Rich can find dates on his micro switches, which would shed some light on what year car his top is from.

-Dan-

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

My PT and the one Rich installed are two different PTs. My wires do heat up some; even with the new wiring harness. I did not check the temp of the old harness compared to the temp of the new wiring harness. Wires never get so hot that you couldn't hold on. I did have voltage drop and it affected the RPM of the repro motor. I revisited every ground point on my car and made sure there was bare metal at all grounding points. That increased voltage at motor from 9.8 to 10.8, but I never achieved 12.0 at motor. The faster the motor spins, the faster the top goes up and down. There is a Youtube video of a 1957 Vette with a PT installed and the up and down cycle takes 57 seconds each way.

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Here is the end cap of my original PT motor oil reservoir. I wondered if the L9 was a date code for 1959.

[Richard M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Dan, the one I restored last year was a '56 top system. That link in my first post above has the pictures and details in the pdf. IIRC is was cloth covered wiring but I had heat shrink on it from someone else.

The 1956 wiring is 18 gauge, MUCH too small when the switches get resistive and arc. Much of that harness needed repair from the high current requirement of the valve solenoids, particularly at the terminal ends where poor contacts caused high currents. Solenoid current is 12 to 15 amps. The wire gauge for the relays I used was 14G for the source/load circuits along with my fused feed from the main power lead source at the underdash switch(sourced from the firewall circuit breaker, IIRC 40A, as it also feeds the Power Windows on that same car).

If you recall my wiring diagram for that '56 top, there are no fuses included in that design.

1956PT_Wiring_Rev4.jpg

The 1957 and later systems, like this one I have here, included a pair of fuses for the UP and Down circuits through the limit switches to the solenoids. I don't have a colorized more descriptive diagram of that one yet but it is in the plans. I also plan to do a operations sequence document, like this one that I did for the '56 system.

Joe, That "L9" must be a date code. This one is L0(zero). I thought it was saying "LO" as in Low fluid as it's near the fill cap. Good info Joe, thanks. When I get the micro switches apart I'll check for dates too.
PA140234.jpg

[Joe M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Rich, all of my micro switches had a date code stamped in white ink on the same side as MICRO BA-2RL2. Now that I have one of the micro switches in hand, it is 10-58. The BA-2RL2 micro switch is still being manufactured and I purchased a replacement switch for $17.

Rich, how do you remove the two tiny brass pins that hold the top of the micro switch to the body. Do you push them inside the switch?

[Joel M.]

Re: 1959 Power Top System

Can anyone following this thread with a known original RPO473 61/62 car confirm a BROWN trunk deck micro switch button as per the new 61/62 JG. I own what firmly I believe to be an unaltered two owner 62 with a black button. Regards // Joel Miller