Judging Guides and Color Pictures

[Terry M.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

Thanks Dick for your real cost figures.

[Michael B.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

I joined the NCRS two years ago to learn how to restore my two 72 corvettes to as close to original condition as possible. I assumed NCRS was a bunch of guys that enjoyed a similar interest and would be willing to share their experience and knowledge. Thankfully, that is mostly true.

However, there is another group that seem to be so caught up in the judging aspect of this hobby that it overshadows the enjoyment of getting a car back to it's original glory. I'm really disappointed that there are officers at the National level in NCRS considering withholding helpful information from members in the form of color pictures in order to avoid a possible protest on the judging floor from some jackass claiming he matched the shade of a color to a photograph. I thought this was supposed to be an organization that did everything possible to encourage and assist with the restoration of corvettes. Withholding color photographs is certainly not in the spirit of helping members like myself that are trying to learn.

I think the National Officers need to take another look at the by-laws of this club. In section 3.1 it states the purpose of the NCRS is "to aid the Members effort to preserve and restore the vehicles in their original, as manufactured condition". Black and white photographs aren't much of an aid. It's sad to see "politics" undermining the restoration of these cars.

This is just the humble opinion of a new guy.

[Dick W.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

One thing I forgot to add in my previous post, not all pages are color. Some items show just as well in B & W, some pages are nothing but text. When I got the quote for the '68-'69 manual there were probably only 100 pages of color +/-. When comparing cost they need to compare eggs to eggs, not eggs to apples

[Bob B.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

A high quality color photo is a good start, but with different exposures, lighting, photo shop style tinting and good ol age color photography is not a absolute perfect portrayal of color/ We HAVE to have access and good record of the survivor cars, they are priceless to restorers. NCRS should have "standards" of what is proper direct off true SURVIVORS. I tried getting the proper carpet color for my 70 blue vinyl interior, got samples from all the big carpet suppliers- NONE OF THEM COLOR MATCHED every single one is selling a different color ! I am not sure good judges have a acceptable color to go off as correct. What paint manufacturer is correct for Mulsanne blue ? How about blue interior paint or vinyl- these cars aren't getting any younger.

[Dick W.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

There were color variations when these cars were new. Different dye lots produced different color/shade carpets. I have seen several interiors that were removed, laid out in the sunlight, and there were many different shades on the parts. Interior pieces did not all come from one manufacturer hence variations in shades. Exterior paint had minor differences when new. As I posted earlier humidity, temperature, painter, and a couple of other variables.

[Michael J.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

There were color variations when these cars were new. Different dye lots produced different color/shade carpets. I have seen several interiors that were removed, laid out in the sunlight, and there were many different shades on the parts. Interior pieces did not all come from one manufacturer hence variations in shades. Exterior paint had minor differences when new. As I posted earlier humidity, temperature, painter, and a couple of other variables.

[Kenneth P.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

There were color variations when these cars were new. Different dye lots produced different color/shade carpets. I have seen several interiors that were removed, laid out in the sunlight, and there were many different shades on the parts. Interior pieces did not all come from one manufacturer hence variations in shades. Exterior paint had minor differences when new. As I posted earlier humidity, temperature, painter, and a couple of other variables.

I've been following this thread and find some of the arguments could be valid. Take for example my 1990 has Saddle/Cognac interior which a lot of people confuse with Tan/Beige which GM did switch to in 1993. Two totally different colors side by side but deceiving in pictures.

Recently I bought a set of floor mats that was listed as Tan/Saddle. In the picture they look more saddle than tan so I got them only to find they were really tan. I really should have message the seller but then I went by the picture. I did end up selling them to a guy who's C4 had the tan/beige interior.

[Bob B.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

[QUOTE=Dick Whittington (8804);767628]There were color variations when these cars were new. Different dye lots produced different color/shade carpets. I have seen several interiors that were removed, laid out in the sunlight, and there were many different shades on the parts. Interior pieces did not all come from one manufacturer hence variations in shades. Exterior paint had minor differences when new. As I posted earlier humidity, temperature, painter, and a couple of other variables.
Gentlemen- DW's EXACT words should be given to every judge to memorize and in the judging guide- this is reality ! The more experienced the judge the more they say "this is a mass produced car- the production line was never shut down and no two cars were exactly the same" NCRS's saying about not typical is a good reminder. THANKS-

[Joseph R.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

I am surprised to learn the Tech Info Manual & Judging Guides are not in color. There should be a disclaimer in the webstore and driveline ads stating that these guides and their reference photos are photocopied in black and white, despite the pretty color covers presented in the ads.

I asked for the 63/64 TIM&JG for Christmas and received the funds to purchase it, but I will hold off until it is issued in color. I would have been highly annoyed to spend $50+ and receive a xerox copy in black and white. The volunteers who donate countless hours to assemble and reissue the guides deserve to have their work conveyed as meaningfully as possible, and that is in color.

If a glossy color magazine issue with great resolution can be had for around $7 retail I don't understand why a color TIM&JG needs to be prohibitively priced. Look at the great photos in the Truly Original L88 Engine article in the latest Restorer, for instance, and imagine how useless some of them would be without color. Given the NCRS already contracts for color printing of the magazine and Driveline, why not check the cost to print the TM&JG in low volume in a magazine format with those vendors.
.

[Mark E.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

When will the new 70-72 JG be available?

I noticed the fourth edition is no longer available in the store.

[Mark D.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

The lack of communication, within this awesome club, is sad. Hopefully, someone that should inform the membership regarding color manuals, will.

[Mark E.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

The lack of communication, within this awesome club, is sad. Hopefully, someone that should inform the membership regarding color manuals, will.

I think this was mentioned at the recent Judging Retreat in Grapevine. But as my wife reminds me, I don't always listen.

[Gary B.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

MY goal is to release the completed manual to David Brigham around the first of May, 2016. He needs to review it, we need to make what changes he asks for, get it printed, etc. Right now, David tells me he want to sell the manual at Carlisle this year.

Interior and Exterior sections are pretty well done. Just tweaking words, fixing text, my mis-spelling (kind of like this post), punctuation, stuff like that. Chassis is probably 95% complete. Again, Reba, Patrick and Alan is proof reading fixing all my screw-ups. Mechanical was released to the team again a week ago. Those comments are dwindling back in. Reba, Patrick and Alan are proof reading again, fixing more of my ooop's. Forward is done, Op's are basically done, we are just fine tuning it.

It's a slow process, and I apologize for that. I, probably more picky about that the others, have wanted just the right photographs for different sections. I hate out of focus pictures! It has taken us time to get those pictures. When one of the team said.... we need a picture of that, well then we needed to find a car to get that picture, which might be several hours away for me or others.

You will be happy with the new manual. Lots of pictures. 99% of the pictures are from original unrestored cars. This publication will have more pictures than any other other publication that I know of 70-71 original, unrestored parts and pieces from low mileage cars.

As far as black & white versus color. I think the members will be really happy with Davids decision at the last Board of Directors meeting. That is all I will say, I think somebody in higher authority than me should make that announcement.

Gary Bosselman

ps. Is this ok Mark?

[Ken R.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

When I started in this hobby many years ago, the "Bible" for mid-years was Dobbins " Fact Book of the 63-67 Stingray" . All the issues I have of it are in B/W. But we still used it. Adams "Corvette Restoration & Technical Guide" is in B/W. If we were interested in a certain item, we sought it out and took photos to review at home.
The newly released 97-99 TIM&JG is in B/W. But I have some of the included photos in original color from my 99. Now for the news; the 80-82 manual (4th edition) we worked on has many photos (42) in COLOR. We took and submitted many photos in color. I have some of the originals. Guess I need to ask Ken Sleeper how that got done! I feel some photos in color of certain items show clarity over a B/W photo. So some photos could be in B/W and still be of the same benefit.

[Michael J.]

Re: Judging Guides and Color Pictures

That '80-'82 TIM&JG is a really great piece of work, thanks to all who made that happen.