1963 side fender flags

[Edward J.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

[QUOTE=Bob Jorjorian (1619);769293]Joe,
I agee with you on the pilot line.

As far as the thin and thick being mixed on the line, I personally don't feel that happened.
The emblem holes would not in the same place, which would require different hole templates for drilling,
I don't think the emblem studs are even the same size between emblems. That would require two different attaching nuts.

As I posted earlier the AIM page doesn't show any changes in the history box and a 63 parts book doesn't list anything other than the 158.

To be original on all 63s (other than pilot line cars) you'll need what is pictured below!

Bob Jorjorian[/QUOTE



Bob, a few years ago I found a set of take offs that had been sitting since the early 70's in pristine shape stored in a plastic bag, from 63 that a car was raced and emblems were removed, the blue in the factory emblems was a deep navy blue, I have seen some of the NOS emblems, colors seem to vary. and the white was closer to a ivory.I also noted the studs on the rear were not chrome plated all the up. Nuts were a goldish color. I will take and post the pic.s of the emblems later.

[Alan D.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Ed,
I purchased these 3792000 flags back in 1972, never realized they were wrong for a corvette until I joined NCRS. As for the color have pictures of both shades of red, the one's purchased in 1972 are the dark red.
Story was that the GM parts book was wrong and that's how error begun. The 3792000 flags were widely used on early metal cars pre 1963. Just can not find thread.
Well I did find;
Re: 63 Emblem Myth

Tom... and everyone else that own's a 63,

It's time to put another 63 Corvette myth out of it's misery. There's no such thing as thin side emblems for any 63 Corvette. This one has been causing problems since the first parts books were printed in 1963. The "Thin" 3792000 emblem was used on 62 Corvette and 62-63 passenger cars but there was a mistake in the original 63 parts book that continued on and was never corrected. In one listing, the 3827158 was listed for Corvette and below that, the 3792000 was listed for 62-63 pass and Corvette. If you look in the assembly manual, you will see absolutely no mention of the thin 3792000 emblem, only the thick 3827158 and if I remember correctly, that part number was catalogued and finalized way back in July of 1962. I owned serial #00170 S/W in the early 70's and it had it's original faded 3827158 emblems on it. In the mid 70's, I looked at Steve Costelli's serial #00020 pilot line car and it had one of it's original 3827158 emblems on it. If I'm not mistaken, the thin "000" emblem won't even fit into the original holes in the fender of a 63 because the spacing of the studs is different. The 3827158 emblem was discontinued in the mid 60's and replaced in service with the 3872930. NOS 3827158's are near impossible to find. I've found only two sets in nearly 30 years of searching.

Now, for the difference in 3827158/3872930, it was only the color that changed in the red/orange flag. The 3827158 that was used from 1963 through 1965 was orange but that was changed to dark red on the 3872930 for 66. The orange in the 158 emblem should be the same as the orange in the Fuel Injection emblem and front nose emblem. The 1966 3872930 side flag doesn't even come close to matching. The same is true for 1965 and 1966 front emblems. The color on an orginal 65 nose emblem was orange while the 66 was changed to maroon. There was a different part number for 65 than there was for 66 but all service replacement emblems carry both numbers because the original 65 number was discontinued in late 65 and replaced by the 3872929 66 nose emblem.

Michael

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Ed,
I purchased these 3792000 flags back in 1972, never realized they were wrong for a corvette until I joined NCRS. As for the color have pictures of both shades of red, the one's purchased in 1972 are the dark red.
Story was that the GM parts book was wrong and that's how error begun. The 3792000 flags were widely used on early metal cars pre 1963. Just can not find thread.
Well I did find;
Re: 63 Emblem Myth

Tom... and everyone else that own's a 63,

It's time to put another 63 Corvette myth out of it's misery. There's no such thing as thin side emblems for any 63 Corvette. This one has been causing problems since the first parts books were printed in 1963. The "Thin" 3792000 emblem was used on 62 Corvette and 62-63 passenger cars but there was a mistake in the original 63 parts book that continued on and was never corrected. In one listing, the 3827158 was listed for Corvette and below that, the 3792000 was listed for 62-63 pass and Corvette. If you look in the assembly manual, you will see absolutely no mention of the thin 3792000 emblem, only the thick 3827158 and if I remember correctly, that part number was catalogued and finalized way back in July of 1962. I owned serial #00170 S/W in the early 70's and it had it's original faded 3827158 emblems on it. In the mid 70's, I looked at Steve Costelli's serial #00020 pilot line car and it had one of it's original 3827158 emblems on it. If I'm not mistaken, the thin "000" emblem won't even fit into the original holes in the fender of a 63 because the spacing of the studs is different. The 3827158 emblem was discontinued in the mid 60's and replaced in service with the 3872930. NOS 3827158's are near impossible to find. I've found only two sets in nearly 30 years of searching.

Now, for the difference in 3827158/3872930, it was only the color that changed in the red/orange flag. The 3827158 that was used from 1963 through 1965 was orange but that was changed to dark red on the 3872930 for 66. The orange in the 158 emblem should be the same as the orange in the Fuel Injection emblem and front nose emblem. The 1966 3872930 side flag doesn't even come close to matching. The same is true for 1965 and 1966 front emblems. The color on an orginal 65 nose emblem was orange while the 66 was changed to maroon. There was a different part number for 65 than there was for 66 but all service replacement emblems carry both numbers because the original 65 number was discontinued in late 65 and replaced by the 3872929 66 nose emblem.

Michael

Alan------


I believe the 3792000 emblems were used for 1962 Corvettes.

[Alan D.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Agree and that's what is mentioned in the thread also.
My relocation of just what was said was a little hazy, sorry but time marches on.

[Edward J.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

IMG_0543.jpg
IMG_0541.jpg


Guys here are a couple pic. of my 63 emblems note the colors. thanks Ed

[Bob J.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

[QUOTE=Edward Johnson (49497);769400]

Joe,
I agee with you on the pilot line.

As far as the thin and thick being mixed on the line, I personally don't feel that happened.
The emblem holes would not in the same place, which would require different hole templates for drilling,
I don't think the emblem studs are even the same size between emblems. That would require two different attaching nuts.

As I posted earlier the AIM page doesn't show any changes in the history box and a 63 parts book doesn't list anything other than the 158.

To be original on all 63s (other than pilot line cars) you'll need what is pictured below!

Bob Jorjorian[/QUOTE



Bob, a few years ago I found a set of take offs that had been sitting since the early 70's in pristine shape stored in a plastic bag, from 63 that a car was raced and emblems were removed, the blue in the factory emblems was a deep navy blue, I have seen some of the NOS emblems, colors seem to vary. and the white was closer to a ivory.I also noted the studs on the rear were not chrome plated all the up. Nuts were a goldish color. I will take and post the pic.s of the emblems later.

Ed,
that was a lucky find. Yes, we would love to see pics of the emblem AND the attaching nut.
Bob J

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

All-----


Just a very "iffy" observation: GM #3827158 looks to me like a part number that MIGHT not have been released at the very outset of the 1963 model year. Dating part release in this manner is a somewhat "imprecise science" but, based on my experience, I just have a hunch it might not have been released as of SOP 1963.

[Bob J.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

All-----


Just a very "iffy" observation: GM #3827158 looks to me like a part number that MIGHT not have been released at the very outset of the 1963 model year. Dating part release in this manner is a somewhat "imprecise science" but, based on my experience, I just have a hunch it might not have been released as of SOP 1963.

63 AIM and 63 parts book lists no other number for 63 side emblems, none.
63 serial #105 had 3827158 emblems and that car was built the FIRST or SECOND day of regular production.
As far the the part number 3827158 being too high for Start Of Production that doesn't play either.
Off the top of my head a 63 lower radiator hose is 3827366 and it was used SOP,a 63 FI adapter was 3826810.
I'm sure if I looked in an AIM for 63 there would be a hundred more examples of parts around the 3827 prefix that were used SOP.

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

63 AIM and 63 parts book lists no other number for 63 side emblems, none.
63 serial #105 had 3827158 emblems and that car was built the FIRST or SECOND day of regular production.
As far the the part number 3827158 being too high for Start Of Production that doesn't play either.
Off the top of my head a 63 lower radiator hose is 3827366 and it was used SOP,a 63 FI adapter was 3826810.
I'm sure if I looked in an AIM for 63 there would be a hundred more examples of parts around the 3827 prefix that were used SOP.

Bob-------


I agree. There is no other part number shown for the emblems in the AIM. However, that does not necessarily mean that the 3827158 was available to PRODUCTION on the first day that 1963's were built.

I also agree that there are MANY parts with part numbers beginning with 3827 that were used on 1963's from the very start of PRODUCTION. In fact, there were many parts with sequentially HIGHER part numbers used. However, SOME part numbers in the 382 and higher RANGE MIGHT not actually have been available at SOP. I'm not saying that they were not available or used. I'm simply saying they MIGHT not have been available at SOP. In fact, some unique-to-1963 part numbers LOWER than 3827xxx MIGHT not have been available at SOP.

Please note that I also said that drawing inferences from part numbers is an "imprecise science".

[Bob J.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

I think on the 63 AIM page that was not redrawn or changed and with no history box revisions it defines what was used unless somebody has PROOF otherwise.
Serial #105, built no later than the second dayof production shows they were used on the production line on by day 2

If there is PROOF 158s were not used start of production through serial # 105 lets hear it.....otherwise this is PURE speculation with NO facts.

[Rick A.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Agree with the Junkman!

[Michael G.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Bob-------


I agree. There is no other part number shown for the emblems in the AIM. However, that does not necessarily mean that the 3827158 was available to PRODUCTION on the first day that 1963's were built.

I also agree that there are MANY parts with part numbers beginning with 3827 that were used on 1963's from the very start of PRODUCTION. In fact, there were many parts with sequentially HIGHER part numbers used. However, SOME part numbers in the 382 and higher RANGE MIGHT not actually have been available at SOP. I'm not saying that they were not available or used. I'm simply saying they MIGHT not have been available at SOP. In fact, some unique-to-1963 part numbers LOWER than 3827xxx MIGHT not have been available at SOP.

Please note that I also said that drawing inferences from part numbers is an "imprecise science".

The order of part numbers means very little. Components usually took a long time to design. A drawing could sit on a draftsman's drawing board or in a bin for many months after the number was taken out, or, it could get finished in a day.

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

The order of part numbers means very little. Components usually took a long time to design. A drawing could sit on a draftsman's drawing board or in a bin for many months after the number was taken out, or, it could get finished in a day.

Mike------


I would not say that it means very little but I would say that it's an "imprecise science".

[Michael G.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Joe, having drawn many, many, body and chassis components for GM, including emblems, I wouldn't attempt to put a timeline on anything based on the part number order. You might, just might,, get the model year right. That certainly is "imprecise", but "science"?... not so much...

[Joe L.]

Re: 1963 side fender flags

Joe, having drawn many, many, body and chassis components for GM, including emblems, I wouldn't attempt to put a timeline on anything based on the part number order. You might, just might,, get the model year right. That certainly is "imprecise", but "science"?... not so much...

Mike------


I'm not saying this applies to every, single part. However, after years of studying this I have found that there's usually a definite relationship between the part number and the time of release of that part. For example and with respect to the 1963 model year, the vast majority of parts released for that model year with Chevrolet part numbers will fall in the range of 379xxxx to 385xxxx. Within that range, and in general, the parts were released sequentially throughout the model year.

I do not claim that anyone could pinpoint the release date of a part by its part number. However, I think we can do better than just model year.