67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

[William B.]

I am rebuilding my 67 300hp original block. Boring it out to 30 over will need new pistons, cam, timing gears, chain and all bearings. Thinking I will reuse crank, rods and oil pump, will inspect all but thinking I can reuse.
What is the best pistons, cam and bearings, can I use all sealed power? Anyone have part numbers handy? Used to be we upgraded to the 350hp cam, is that still a good thing to do?
Thanks to all who answer.

[Gene M.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

William,
You will need to get pistons first prior to bore and hone because different type pistons require more/less clearance. Such as cast, hyperscopic, or forged. Crank regrind is ok, but have rods checked out. Sealed power is good choice. I prefer Clevite bearings. Cloyes timing set. Sealed power for everything else, you can't go wrong. No use original or close to original cam grind. I like #2102 Edelbrock Cam 204 intake, 214 exhaust. A bit stronger power but can be noticeable in judging.

[Joe L.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

I am rebuilding my 67 300hp original block. Boring it out to 30 over will need new pistons, cam, timing gears, chain and all bearings. Thinking I will reuse crank, rods and oil pump, will inspect all but thinking I can reuse.
What is the best pistons, cam and bearings, can I use all sealed power? Anyone have part numbers handy? Used to be we upgraded to the 350hp cam, is that still a good thing to do?
Thanks to all who answer.

William-------


Why 30 over? Does it actually require that much? If not, go 20 over.

For a camshaft, if you want to go bone-stock use GM #14060651. Sometimes, you can buy this cam for as little as 25 bucks from outfits like Scoggins-Dickey or Sallee Chevrolet that remove them from new GM crate engines to reconfigure the engines for higher performance. Otherwise, you can use Sealed Power CS-274. I recommend GM lifters of GM #5232720. If you wish, you could upgrade to the L-79 camshaft. No longer available from GM, the Sealed Power part number is CS179R.

For pistons I would recommend Keith Black hypereutectic. With your heads KB156 will yield a CR of about 9.6:1. KB157 will yield a CR of about 10.5:1. I'd go with the KB156. Use Sealed Power piston rings.

For cam bearings I highly recommend Durabond. These are the best cam bearings available, bar none. Period. Use set CH-4.

For rod and main bearings I prefer Federal-Mogul premium aluminum bearings. Moraine 400 premium aluminum bearings were originally used in your engine. They are no longer available. However, the Federal-Mogul premium aluminum bearings will do nicely. I prefer premium aluminum to all other bearing types for street operation.

For a timing set I only use and recommend Cloyes True Roller. Period. Part # is 9-3100.

[Gene M.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

There you have it two different answers to the same question.......... agreement on nothing but Seal Power and Cloyes.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

For pistons I would recommend Keith Black hypereutectic. With your heads KB156 will yield a CR of about 9.6:1. KB157 will yield a CR of about 10.5:1. I'd go with the KB156.

For a timing set I only use and recommend Cloyes True Roller. Period. Part # is 9-3100.

I used the previous version of these hypereutectic pistons:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h631cp30/overview/

That was 20 years ago (almost to the day...) and I'm sure they have not gotten any worse. They were all perfectly machined and perfectly matched for weight. Since then I know that the coated piston skirt was added, and possibly other features as well. I chose them at the time over the KB ones, and I'd do it again today.

I recently purchased a Cloyes 9-3100 and a Cloyes 3023-K timing chain set. Why both? My client chose to spend the extra $80 on the 9-3100 given that it was not a large part of the overall project, and I spent the $20 to inspect the 3023-K myself and see if it was that much different from the 9-3100.
After comparing the two I can tell you that 1) the 3023-K is much better than the nylon-toothed originals, and 2) the 9-3100 is definitely worth the extra $80. It is a far nicer unit in every respect. If you're rebuilding a motor for a regular driver car just use the 3023-K. For a Corvette or anything special? Use the 9-3100. You won't be sorry.

Patrick

[Joe L.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

I used the previous version of these hypereutectic pistons:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/slp-h631cp30/overview/

That was 20 years ago (almost to the day...) and I'm sure they have not gotten any worse. They were all perfectly machined and perfectly matched for weight. Since then I know that the coated piston skirt was added, and possibly other features as well. I chose them at the time over the KB ones, and I'd do it again today.

I recently purchased a Cloyes 9-3100 and a Cloyes 3023-K timing chain set. Why both? My client chose to spend the extra $80 on the 9-3100 given that it was not a large part of the overall project, and I spent the $20 to inspect the 3023-K myself and see if it was that much different from the 9-3100.
After comparing the two I can tell you that 1) the 3023-K is much better than the nylon-toothed originals, and 2) the 9-3100 is definitely worth the extra $80. It is a far nicer unit in every respect. If you're rebuilding a motor for a regular driver car just use the 3023-K. For a Corvette or anything special? Use the 9-3100. You won't be sorry.

Patrick

Patrick------


The Sealed Power pistons are fine pistons. However, I don't think you'd find the quality of the Keith Black pistons to be any less.

In any event, the pistons you linked are 350 pistons. The selection of pistons for 327 engines is far less since these engines are nowadays much less popular. As far as I know, Sealed Power does not offer a hypereutectic cast piston for 327 cid small blocks. They offer forged pistons (which I definitely do not recommend for street use) and eutectic cast pistons (more-or-less conventional cast aluminum).

[Patrick H.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

In any event, the pistons you linked are 350 pistons. The selection of pistons for 327 engines is far less since these engines are nowadays much less popular. As far as I know, Sealed Power does not offer a hypereutectic cast piston for 327 cid small blocks. They offer forged pistons (which I definitely do not recommend for street use) and eutectic cast pistons (more-or-less conventional cast aluminum).

Ah, so they are. The brain tends to go only in one direction some days.

[Duke W.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Do not grind the crankshaft unless absolutely necessary. It should be measured for dimensional conformance and straightness. Any minor scratches can be removed by polishing. You have to manage machine shops as many will cut metal without first measuring to determine if it's necessary.

The press fit balancer is somewhat of a "one-shot" deal. Once it's removed it will not be as well secured upon reinstallation, so it's a good idea to drill/tap the crank nose for a Grade 8 center bolt although it will result in a slight deduction in Flight Judging.

The rods are not worth putting any money into like resizing and new bolts. Use them as is other than measuring for dimensional conformity to spec or pay 250 bucks for a set of Eagle SIR5700 rods with pressed pins.

Dissemble the oil pump and inspect. Most can be reused unless they ingested metal somewhere along the line.

Use the 25 dollar truck roller chain set, 3023K. It's actually manufactured by Cloyes to the original GM specs. It will outlive you. There is absolutely no benefit to spending an extra 80 bucks on the 9-3100, which may require grinding the timing chain housing for adequate clearance because the rollers are slightly larger OD - 0.25" vs. 0.20", so it will better handle shocks loads. But unless you plan on doing 8500 power shifts at the dragstrip, you are better off spending the funds on other issues, like head massaging.

Discuss what valve guide rebuilding methods are available to you, and make sure you select a compatible seal system and valve stem finish. Inlet valves can usually be reused if they have not been previously ground, but it's a good idea to replace the exhaust valve with 21-2N stainless. Stainless inlets are a waste - just use OE replacements if they need to be replaced.

If you want L-79 top end power and revs without affecting low rev torque or idle behavior, consider a "Special 300 HP" configuration with the McCagh Special camshaft as discussed in the attached pdf. The two other documents are also useful for planning any engine rebuild as the general considerations apply to all precision rebuilds.

The Web is full of rebuild disasters including some on this site. The better your front end planning and machine shop management, the better the outcome.

Sealed Power replacement parts are built to OE spec, and the NAPA Web site online catalog or any other parts source that offers the Federal Mogul Sealed Power brand should have everything you need other than pistons. For an OE rebuild the KB156 is best. If you go with the Special 300 HP configuration, the late closing inlet valve event of the McCagh Special camshaft can tolerate the additional compression of the KB157.

Duke

[Gene M.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

There you have it two different answers to the same question.......... agreement on nothing but Seal Power and Cloyes.

Now even more answers to the same question............. But Seal Power and Cloyes are still good choices. Just not the same part numbers. It is easy to be free with someone else's money at $80 more......... I agree the std Cloyes will out last you.

Elgin, Frena, and Manley often have complete single piece stainless valves pkg's on the inter web at low cost.

[Joe L.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Now even more answers to the same question............. But Seal Power and Cloyes are still good choices. Just not the same part numbers. It is easy to be free with someone else's money at $80 more......... I agree the std Cloyes will out last you.

Elgin, Frena, and Manley often have complete single piece stainless valves pkg's on the inter web at low cost.

Ultra-cheap, Chinese parts will be adequate and will likely last longer than anyone here is going to need them, especially at the kind of use that the vast majority of older Corvettes are going to see. However, that does not mean that I'd use or recommend them.

As far as automotive brands go, sources like Federal-Mogul/Sealed Power, Dana, etc. are definitely OEM suppliers. However, that does not mean that all the parts they offer are of OEM quality. Those manufacturers have BOTH OEM and aftermarket quality parts lines. In some cases, but DEFINITELY NOT the majority of cases, the OEM and aftermarket parts are the same. This is, BY FAR, the exception and not the rule. For example, AC Delco has several lines of replacement parts. Their OEM line is just that---the same parts as sold through GM dealers and OEM quality. Next, they have their "Professional" series parts line. These are aftermarket-quality parts. They are NOT THE SAME as OEM. Are they good parts? Yes, they are very good parts but they are NOT THE SAME as OEM. Are they adequate and will they last as long as any of us are going to need them? Absolutely yes. But, they are not the same as OEM. I greatly prefer OEM-quality parts whether I need them or not. I use aftermarket quality parts only when there's no other option.

Now, as far as the Cloyes True Roller sets go, these are definitely not aftermarket-quality parts. They are specialty, high performance parts. They exceed OEM quality by a great margin. Does one need to use them? Absolutely NOT. An OEM-quality set will work just fine. An aftermarket quality set will work just fine, too. In fact, a cheap Chinese set that you can buy for 10 bucks will work just fine and and will very likely outlast any of us on this board. So, if an adequate set is all one desires, all one needs to do is spend 10 bucks. Not me, though. The only one I USE and recommend is Cloyes True Roller. PERIOD. Anyone that doesn't want to spend the extra 80 bucks, please don't.

[Gene M.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Gene------

Ultra-cheap, Chinese parts will be adequate and will likely last longer than anyone here is going to need them, especially at the kind of use that the vast majority of older Corvettes are going to see. However, that does not mean that I'd use or recommend them.

As far as automotive brands go, sources like Federal-Mogul/Sealed Power, Dana, etc. are definitely OEM suppliers. However, that does not mean that all the parts they offer are of OEM quality. Those manufacturers have BOTH OEM and aftermarket quality parts lines. In some cases, but DEFINITELY NOT the majority of cases, the OEM and aftermarket parts are the same. This is, BY FAR, the exception and not the rule. For example, AC Delco has several lines of replacement parts. Their OEM line is just that---the same parts as sold through GM dealers and OEM quality. Next, they have their "Professional" series parts line. These are aftermarket-quality parts. They are NOT THE SAME as OEM. Are they good parts? Yes, they are very good parts but they are NOT THE SAME as OEM. Are they adequate and will they last as long as any of us are going to need them? Absolutely yes. But, they are not the same as OEM. I greatly prefer OEM-quality parts whether I need them or not. I use aftermarket quality parts only when there's no other option.

Now, as far as the Cloyes True Roller sets go, these are definitely not aftermarket-quality parts. They are specialty, high performance parts. They exceed OEM quality by a great margin. Does one need to use them? Absolutely NOT. An OEM-quality set will work just fine. An aftermarket quality set will work just fine, too. In fact, a cheap Chinese set that you can buy for 10 bucks will work just fine and and will very likely outlast any of us on this board. So, if an adequate set is all one desires, all one needs to do is spend 10 bucks. Not me, though. The only one I USE and recommend is Cloyes True Roller. PERIOD. Anyone that doesn't want to spend the extra 80 bucks, please don't.

Joe,
Not me nor anybody else here is suggesting nor implying china crap. Don't put any false words or add false implications to my post. Sorry to be so dead on blunt with my point but I do not like being misrepresented.

[Patrick H.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Gene------

Ultra-cheap, Chinese parts will be adequate and will likely last longer than anyone here is going to need them, especially at the kind of use that the vast majority of older Corvettes are going to see. However, that does not mean that I'd use or recommend them.

As far as automotive brands go, sources like Federal-Mogul/Sealed Power, Dana, etc. are definitely OEM suppliers. However, that does not mean that all the parts they offer are of OEM quality. Those manufacturers have BOTH OEM and aftermarket quality parts lines. In some cases, but DEFINITELY NOT the majority of cases, the OEM and aftermarket parts are the same. This is, BY FAR, the exception and not the rule. For example, AC Delco has several lines of replacement parts. Their OEM line is just that---the same parts as sold through GM dealers and OEM quality. Next, they have their "Professional" series parts line. These are aftermarket-quality parts. They are NOT THE SAME as OEM. Are they good parts? Yes, they are very good parts but they are NOT THE SAME as OEM. Are they adequate and will they last as long as any of us are going to need them? Absolutely yes. But, they are not the same as OEM. I greatly prefer OEM-quality parts whether I need them or not. I use aftermarket quality parts only when there's no other option.

Now, as far as the Cloyes True Roller sets go, these are definitely not aftermarket-quality parts. They are specialty, high performance parts. They exceed OEM quality by a great margin. Does one need to use them? Absolutely NOT. An OEM-quality set will work just fine. An aftermarket quality set will work just fine, too. In fact, a cheap Chinese set that you can buy for 10 bucks will work just fine and and will very likely outlast any of us on this board. So, if an adequate set is all one desires, all one needs to do is spend 10 bucks. Not me, though. The only one I USE and recommend is Cloyes True Roller. PERIOD. Anyone that doesn't want to spend the extra 80 bucks, please don't.

I agree with all of this.

As I've mentioned recently, I've gone to using OEM parts whenever possible, especially for brake parts. Yes, they cost more, but they are so worth it.

The Cloyes True Roller is a piece of machining art compared to the 3023K set. Needed? No, but we've all spent $80 on sillier things in this hobby. FYI, it fit a 1972 350 block with zero issues.

[William B.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Thank you everyone, a lot to read, becomes confusing, but I think I got it under control

[Glenn B.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Think I would invest in a new oil pump as well.

[Joe L.]

Re: 67, 300hp rebuild part numbers?? sugestions

Joe,
Not me nor anybody else here is suggesting nor implying china crap. Don't put any false words or add false implications to my post. Sorry to be so dead on blunt with my point but I do not like being misrepresented.

Gene-----


I did not misrepresent you. Where did I say that you said to use cheap, Chinese parts? However, I believe your implication was that one does not need to spend the kind of money that a Cloyes True Roller timing set costs to have an adequate timing set. I agreed with you, one does not have to spend that kind of money. Beyond that, one can also have an adequate timing set by buying a 10 buck Chinese timing set. You didn't say that; I said that. And, it's true.

By the way, I think you misrepresented me when you said "...it's easy to be free with someone else's money at 80 dollars more..." How am I being free with someone else's money? I'm only saying what I USE and what I RECOMMEND. I'm in no way "spending anyone else's money". That's THEIR decision.