Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

[David H.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

[QUOTE=Dave Perry (19643)... ...[/QUOTE]

+1. On target as usual.

Dave

[Michael J.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Thank you, well stated.

[David B.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Folks,

Please remember that an Ops Check is a test of GENERAL functionality. A PV is a test of PRECISE functionality.

If the owner shows up for an Ops Check and the judge observes that the V/R is performing slightly different than normal, I would expect the judge, perhaps after Team Leader consultation, to take no Ops deduction but to make a note as to the variance.

If the owner shows up for the PV, and the NTL determines that the V/R is not performing as DESIGNED, INTENDED and EXPECTED (D.I.E.), a line item failure would result.

In either case above, if the judge does not detect the variance, there will be no deduction/failure. In neither case is it appropriate for the judge to ask to inspect the inside of the V/R.

Dave

[Gene M.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

[QUOTE=Dave Perry (19643);845684]Observation re: "Can a solid state voltage regulator be detected during Performance Verification?"

The VR in question is used from 1963 to at least 1970. (I don't remember if it was used in 71).
These Model Years are covered by FIVE individual National Team Leaders.
These 5 NTL's conduct PV's.
Do EACH of these NTL's consider and even know how to tell the differences? Ie, all PV's in all 5 divisions conducted by individuals with identicle experience and criteria? I doubt it.

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Why would one want to perform a PV without having the car totally represent as built. There needs to be some adherence to the original configuration as to how the car was originally built. To transform the car with modern solid state parts and pass a PV proves nothing. The intention is to have all the original configuration parts function as they were intended to by GM.

To install any modern parts like digital radio, cigar lighter, solid state or digital voltage regulator, ignition solid state pick up, electric choke, digital or quartz clock, digital alternator, Sanyo air compressor, vintage air, Tremec transmission, electronic automatic transmission, digital horn relay, gear reduction starter, the list could go on and on, where would you stop. As it is there are plenty of replacement voltage regulators of the original configuration to obtain to meet the requirement of original configuration part that one could use for a PV.

I just do not see why the idea of using a modern non original type part should even be entertained. If one knows it is a wrong configuration part why do you want to try to sneak it thru the system? By the way it is VERY EASY TO TELL A SOLID STATE/DIGITAL VR FROM ORIGINAL.

[Jim D.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

By the way it is VERY EASY TO TELL A SOLID STATE/DIGITAL VR FROM ORIGINAL.

Amen brother.

[Ronald L.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

DIck I bet you had fun with that with twice the 435HP 67 in existence now than left the factory, not counting the ones that have have been crashed and parted

Half the fun in judging is that you know what is wrong with your car and watching the judges trying to find it. I never was an anal retentive judge, if if it looked like a duck, quacked like a duck, and walked like a duck it probably was a duck.

I tried to have fun and make it fun for the car owners. The only time I would come down hard is if the owner was trying to misrepresent what the car was, i.e. 435 hp vs 300 hp

[Ronald L.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Gene, start judging both ends (F/R) of the shocks, do you know how many NCRS guys in the last year have tried to get me to sell only the rears because of your rules, that is rears are seen, the judges can't see the fronts so they put junk on the front and correct on the rear, just stupid to do so if you understand vehicle dynamics and maybe even safety at speed, and all for $500? They are ONLY after the highest score for the lowest cost and then dump the car for sale as we saw with the guy looking for nearly ten years for a proper T0223 435HP engine stamp pad, the desperation was cheap what was up there too.

And I hope both yourself and the judges shared information and both were sharing of knowledge and exchange of it. Keep in mind the restoration of these Corvettes as correctly as possible is the goal. Now I realize there are some that the award is the only goal. And even others as high a score as they can muster is all they want. Sad as that may be it is reality.

I realize not everyone is at the same knowledge level and it does affect the judging out come. But if the true restoration is one’s goal, correct will preside over something that is just wrong and ultimately be of higher favorable evualation.

[Chris S.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

To the OP - apply CDCIF - I am with Dave Perry....

[Gene M.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

Gene, start judging both ends (F/R) of the shocks, do you know how many NCRS guys in the last year have tried to get me to sell only the rears because of your rules, that is rears are seen, the judges can't see the fronts so they put junk on the front and correct on the rear, just stupid to do so if you understand vehicle dynamics and maybe even safety at speed, and all for $500? They are ONLY after the highest score for the lowest cost and then dump the car for sale as we saw with the guy looking for nearly ten years for a proper T0223 435HP engine stamp pad, the desperation was cheap what was up there too.

Ron, First of all the rules are not mine, NCRS owns the rules for judging. We just work with them.

What you say may be quite true. Having been a chassis judge for years I’ve seen all kinds of different shocks presented for judging. I would not recommend driving some of the cars that were judged. Wiped out originals so bad and leaking to something totally wrong configuration has been seen. It is clear which cars are only show field cars. Delco makes a gas shock (I don’t know if they still do) that has the same case as the originals. They say Delco but the commonality stops there. These, one could actually drive with. Yes they will lose points. Using CDCIF they can be painted correct, the configuration look good. You can’t tell the type shock (gas charged) nothing looks different from a configuration stand point. Bushing paint/no paint needs to be right. The date and text will be wrong. Now this is for small block cars if you have optional BB setup it will not hold water.

One should understand the front shocks are near impossible to verify the text and dates. But one can look for the other requirements of CDCIF. But as you say the rears are totally verifiable. As for the thrown together cars that are put thru the system and sold for big profit I don’t see that stopping. There are true hobbiest and at the other extreme side there are car wh***s. Nothing seems to change that.

I’m not sure the requirements for shocks have for a PV, weather gas charged are ok or not. I do know radial tires are not acceptable. The fact that they are the current Delco replacements may not hold water since the type is not just a hydraulic shock but rather gas charged.

Maybe since Dave Brigham has been following this thread, he will comment.

[Dick W.]

Re: Solid State Regulator detection in ops or PV judging

DIck I bet you had fun with that with twice the 435HP 67 in existence now than left the factory, not counting the ones that have have been crashed and parted

Never counterfeited a car, that was not my goal. My goal was to have fun and not to get my panties in a wad about judging. Life is way too short to lose sleep over a mass produced car. People tend to lose that thought. These cars were not precision built, everyone identical cars. Many had small differences in the way they were assembled.

I have owned a couple of rare cars over the years. I always represented them as they came. One I was very upfront about all four quarters, upper surround, frame, restamp, and rear fiberglass replaced. Duntov, Bloomington Gold car. It brought six figures in 1990 and last time sold brought mid six figures.