63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

[Ed V.]

I am looking to purchase a 63 split window and see some vette's have multiple indentions for soldering the vin tag to the support bar.

Any thoughts as to if or how these can be faked? What are things to look out for when purchasing a 63 split window?

Thank You,
Ed

[Mark F.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

I am looking to purchase a 63 split window and see some vette's have multiple indentions for soldering the vin tag to the support bar. Any thoughts as to if or how these can be faked? What are things to look out for when purchasing a 63 split window? Thank You, Ed

Images of examples of what you are talking about might help...AND have you arrived at a particular car you're looking at?

[Mark F.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

My apologies, Ed...and welcome to the NCRS TDB...I did not realize this was your first post!

[David H.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

I am looking to purchase a 63 split window and see some vette's have multiple indentions for soldering the vin tag to the support bar.

Any thoughts as to if or how these can be faked? What are things to look out for when purchasing a 63 split window?

Thank You,
Ed

Ed

Welcome to NCRS Tech Board.

A photo of VIN and Trim Tags would be helpful. That VIN tag was spot welded on. Fake Trim Tags are also a concern, so both are important.

Information on VIN and Trim Tags should be consistent, NCRS Birthday Book and Trim Tag Book are useful resources. Photos will be helpful.

Dave

[Tom D.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Ed: Inspect the frame of the car for significant rust. Worst areas (from my experiences in Western NY) tend to be in front of the rear wheels. Also, Learn how to view metal parts under the dash (below the windshield). The metal around the passenger compartment is called the "bird cage", and parts of that can rust also. That is hard to repair if rusty, but do-able with time and money. Good luck and don't be afraid to ask for NCRS helpers in your area.

[Joe L.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

I am looking to purchase a 63 split window and see some vette's have multiple indentions for soldering the vin tag to the support bar.

Any thoughts as to if or how these can be faked? What are things to look out for when purchasing a 63 split window?

Thank You,
Ed

Ed------


The best way to verify a VIN tag? Inspect the frame's VIN derivative stamping. Yes, it's difficult to do but, in my opinion, absolutely essential if one is spending the kind of money that vintage Corvettes command these days.

If the VIN tag and frame stamping match, then you know the VIN tag (AND THE CAR) is legitimate. If they do not, then you know the VIN tag is not legitimate (AND THE CAR IS LIKELY A STOLEN CAR). A car could have been stolen, "re-identified" 50 years ago, and passed through who knows how many owners since. But all that does not "cleanse" it; it's still just as stolen as it ever was and subject to confiscation if so-identified. The last "owner" is always the one left "holding the bag".

More than a few Corvettes had VIN tags switched "way-back-when".

[Frank D.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

I am looking to purchase a 63 split window and see some vette's have multiple indentions for soldering the vin tag to the support bar.

Any thoughts as to if or how these can be faked? What are things to look out for when purchasing a 63 split window?

Thank You,
Ed

Back to the question, if you're talking about the "double tap" sometimes seen on the VIN on these cars; it happens and doesn't mean the tags are faked . This is my split window tag on a high Second Flight Regional awarded car.

As to what to look for in a split window for a purchase - just pay for a competent inspection.
Seriously, C2s have enough esoteric potential problems and 63s are the most esoteric, with nearly monthly production changes so a particular VIN may be an amalgam of "early" and "late" features that takes time to identify and examine.

[Ed V.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Thanks to everyone that replied. As for the first question, I was hesitant to post images but will do so now.

The image in the last post by Frank is similar to what had me concerned. It appeared that the rail it was attached to was sanded to accept the new "solder" if that is even what is happening here. It appears the tag is fused to the rail. But I have also noticed the numbers aligned to the left of the Chevrolet lettering or right or the Text doesn't appear to match others.

I will take the advise and look at other areas as well but just looking for advise similar to what has already been provided. I didn't locate the "one" yet but am on the hunt.

One last Q: Where can I find the location of the "VIN derivative stamping?"

Appears Legit
apears legit numbers way left of chevrolet.jpg
Appears to have been modified but appears to have normal aging.
appears old and legit.jpg
Appears too shiny and new. Rail appears to have been modified to accept it.
appears retagged.jpg

Thank You

[Richard G.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Should be a Nov 12 1962 Car. (Build date)
One can see where the paint was sanded off so the VIN tag would spot weld to the dash section.
With out getting into the details, like other might, the welds look like they should.
Or they look just like my Dec 1963 car does.

Your car should have some early 63 stuff like;
The Borg Warner Transmission
No heat shield between the transmission and body.
The early mirror that looks like a Chevelle mirror. (this changed later in 63 to one used on all the other C2's)
AM only radio, if it has one.
Radial swirls on the steering wheel spokes vers the lines from the center out like later 63's.
So many running changes it is fairly easy to know if a 63 has been messed with.
Best of luck.
Rick

[David H.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Ed

I see three different VIN and two different Trim Tags. Which one is in question?

You need to get MUCH better photographs for an assessment.

Dave

[Tom D.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Thanks to everyone that replied. As for the first question, I was hesitant to post images but will do so now.

The image in the last post by Frank is similar to what had me concerned. It appeared that the rail it was attached to was sanded to accept the new "solder" if that is even what is happening here. It appears the tag is fused to the rail. But I have also noticed the numbers aligned to the left of the Chevrolet lettering or right or the Text doesn't appear to match others.

I will take the advise and look at other areas as well but just looking for advise similar to what has already been provided. I didn't locate the "one" yet but am on the hunt.

One last Q: Where can I find the location of the "VIN derivative stamping?"

Appears Legit
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104155[/ATTACH]
Appears to have been modified but appears to have normal aging.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104156[/ATTACH]
Appears too shiny and new. Rail appears to have been modified to accept it.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]104157[/ATTACH]

Thank You

Ed: VIN derivative stampings appear on the frame (topside, so hard to see) above the wheel and under the door sill, unless rusted. These are hard to see, even with a thin mirror. VIN derivative stamping also appears on your original transmission, as well as on the right front of the engine block. By all means, look for someone from the NCRS to look the car over for you. Here is an example. It begins with "5" because this frame is from a '65.

vin derivative on frame 11843 - 1.jpg
Ed: I was able to take this photo because the body was off the frame until 11/4/2020.

[Frank D.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Should be a Nov 12 1962 Car. (Build date)
One can see where the paint was sanded off so the VIN tag would spot weld to the dash section.
With out getting into the details, like other might, the welds look like they should.
Or they look just like my Dec 1963 car does.

Your car should have some early 63 stuff like;
The Borg Warner Transmission
No heat shield between the transmission and body.
The early mirror that looks like a Chevelle mirror. (this changed later in 63 to one used on all the other C2's)
AM only radio, if it has one.
Radial swirls on the steering wheel spokes vers the lines from the center out like later 63's.
So many running changes it is fairly easy to know if a 63 has been messed with.
Best of luck.
Rick

And frosted hubcaps and the seat belt webbing changed and hood blocks (or not) and early headlight buckets and on and on,
Seriously without having somebody competent look over the car it is easy to make mistakes.

[Norm B.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

Here is what my VIN # looked like on the top of the frame over the left rear tire on my '63 SWC. There is only enough of it readable to confirm that it is the correct number. It took a lot of searching and gentle cleaning just to find it. It's an early "Monday morning" car so I guess whoever was striking it was still a little under the weather from the weekend. The point is I never would have found it with the body still on the frame so don't be too discouraged if you can't find it on a car you are looking at.

Vin #.jpg

[Frank D.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

What are things to look out for when purchasing a 63 split window?

Thank You,
Ed

If you'll PM me an email address I can give you a link to a video showing some things to look for on a split window using my car as a template; I made it for a friend that was on the hunt for one it was done in a hurry though and NO SUBSTIUTE for a professional inspection...
To wit, it will help you disqualify some bad candidates but shouldn't be used to confirm a "good" car to purchase in all regards.

[Joe L.]

Re: 63 Corvette VIN tag authenticity

All------


It can be very difficult to read the frame-stamped VIN derivatives. It's supposed to be that way and that's why they are so important as they are not easily "messed with".

If one is looking at a car and the VIN plate matches the VIN derivative stamped on the engine and transmission, one can be reasonably sure the car is legitimate. It's not proof-positive, though, because the engine, transmission, and VIN plate could all have been transferred from another car, possibly one that was wrecked but for which the owner had the ownership documents. This circumstance is unlikely but possible.

However, if a car does not have its original engine and transmission, then the only way a buyer can determine that the VIN plate is original to the car is to check the frame stamping. Yes, it's difficult but it's the only way to ensure that the car one is considering purchasing is legitimate.

A BIG RED FLAG: the engine or transmission is correct for the year and model in question but does not match the VIN. That's the biggest red flag possible.

Of course, once one owns a car, then one does not want to know if the frame stamping matches the VIN tag. One wants to "assume it does". I wonder just how many Corvettes (and other collectable cars) out there are actually previously stolen cars with "switched" VIN tags? I'll bet there are more than most people think.

How did this happen? Back in the day lots of young men wanted Corvettes and other hi performance cars which are now Big $$$$ collectables. Insurance was VERY TOUGH to get for a young man with a high performance car, especially a Corvette. If they had a loan on the car, they had to carry massively expensive collision insurance. But, if they totaled the car, the insurance was there to make the bank or finance company whole. That could leave the owner with no car to show for a few years of payments. If they owned the car outright, they often drove without insurance because of the cost or, even, impossibility of getting it. Back in those days there was no state mandate of insurance in order to register a car. Of course, driving without insurance or insufficient insurance was a stupid thing to do. But, young men had powerful desires to own and drive those hi-performance cars. And, those young men drove them in ways that made accidents a propensity (that's why insurance for them was expensive or impossible to get).

So, what to do when their Corvette or other hi-performance car was totaled? One easy solution was to find another car, steal it, and transfer the VIN plate. Presto! They were whole again. They now had a car that was just fine (maybe even better than the one they wrecked) and they had the ownership documents that matched the VIN. They could drive the car and, even, later sell it just like nothing had happened. They probably didn't know about the frame VIN stamping or, if they did, cared less about it. No one ever checked that. Their secret was hidden.