With my car under disassembly, I am searching for a guide with detailed illustrations (photos) of how an early 65 should look in order to Top Flight on its first showing. I am concerned about the extent of repainting (should the interior be stripped to bare fiberglass; the underside of the rear deck lid; epoxy vs. paint on the frame; proper shade differences for individual components). Are the bolts, screws, washers and nuts best bought from Long Island Corvettes or should I be trying to locate 40+ year old hardware. I have already purchased Noland Adams book for C2s and the NCRS judging manual for 65s. Neither provides detailed photos. Any input would be appreciated
-
-
Re: 65 Restoration
This sport/hobby is maybe 90% tecnology + 10% art. In some places, there is no 'correct' answer and different judges have different opinions on what's right/correct. So, it's futile to look for a single authoritive source that serves as a template or algorithm on how to do your car 100% correct from the git go.
About the best you can do, is to get & read the various restoration guideline books and when you come to place(s) where you know you don't know, consult with others. Bear in mind, answers you get are often simply that individual's opinon. So, use the technique of suspended judgement; collect the various inputs you get and weigh them until YOU decide which is the correct course of action for you and your car.
There are just too many variables (car configuration, where built, when built, Etc.) to produce the documentation you're looking for; "how do I make my car 100% correct the FIRST time out?"...
That's why many of us, slow down, take our time and get OUT to attend judging meets (chapter, regional, national) to physically observe the cars being judged while we're in the process of actually doing the restoration work on our own 'baby' back home.
In the end, it's not the final objective (certificate, award ribbon) that you'll remember. It's the JOURNEY itself that makes the memory repleat with its frustration(s), dead ends, and foibles + the people you meet and personal friendships you make along the way! -
Re: 65 Restoration
Jack thanks for the response. It seems there must be some detailed and photo illustrated publication that clearly outlines the restoration. The thought of so many cars having gone through the process without a compiling of such seems unlikely.Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Martin -- you're making a tall order; the best I've seen is a 20-year ago publication Corvette Restoration -- State of the Art, by David Burroughs, on a 14,971 VIN L78. But even David's book, strong on finishes, doesn't get into bolts.
There's M.F. Dobbins' book as well showing completed or original C2 configurations.
The non-existant comprehensive "how-to" book to guarantee a top-flight car first time out would be thousands of pages long; half text, the rest photographs.
As Jack says, it's the voyage, not the ribbon.Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
I've heard the Burroughs book (actually the restoration job that ignited this crazy sport/hobby--"factory concours") has LONG been out of print and those putting copies up on eBay are getting solid money for them!
For those who don't know, the book recites what he did to restore a 1965 396 car WAY back when. There are GREAT pictures in the book along with a very entertaining narrative. BUT, for those trying to use the book as a 'template' to restore their 396 cars, BEWARE!
There are many places where Dave 'guessed' about this/that aspect of the car and we've learned/documented a LOT since the book was published.
That's one of the major drawbacks about 'how to' books.... You're seeing someone else's restoration efforts and you could WELL be copying the 'mistakes' they made with their car over onto your car!Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Martin, I've only been involved with Corvettes for about 3-4 years. When I first started I asked some of the same stuff you are asking. "Okay guys I bought this 64 Corvette, now what book do I need to tell me what and how to make it "just like it was off the assembly line". I got so many different answers I wondered myself what in the world did I get myself into?? But over the last 3-4 years I think I finally figured it out. Even though these cars went down the same assembly line NO TWO were EVER EXACTLY alike! After working in a factory for 30 years I know all my co-workers were not robots doing everything the same. Yes there are templates, specs, diagrams to follow but we're talking 30-40 years ago. I don't believe they were quite "as strict" then as they are now. One example is the bolts or fasteners. The manual will call for a certain size bolt for connect bumpers to braces. If the assembler is using bolthead "WB" and runs out he may grab some out of another bin with "TR" bolts. When the seats are put in you had one guy bolting in the drivers seat on the left side of the assembly line and someone else putting in the passenger seat on the right side. They didn't grab their fasteners from the same bin, drivers side may have had "Anchor" head bolts and the passenger side "C" head bolts. This went on all the way down the line.
I am in the finishing touches of a 67 SB restoration and I couldn't have done it without the help from this membership. There is more knowledge on this board than you will EVER find in any book. I started off with the NCRS Judging Guide, Noland Adams Complete Restoration and Guide, M.F. Dobbins "Fact Book of the 63-67 Stingray" and don't forget your wad of cash. When you get to a place you don't know what to do, go to the NCRS archives and type it in. If you don't get an answer ask on the TB. No matter HOW many times that question has been asked most of the guys on here will give you the information. A lot of these members actually worked at the St. Louis plant or may have known someone who worked there.
Martin, good luck with your restoration and if I can be of any help don't hesitate to ask.
Take care,
ShooterComment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Thank you Henry, Wayne and Jack. I may end up with dozens of questions as the process goes on or may simply say enough and move on. It does seem a little crazy to become so wrapped up in the details but such seems to be the nature of the club. The journey will be interesting.Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
What I have done in the past when i have question that I am not sure of the answers I get - I contact the National Team Leader. In our case you could not ask for a nicer guy to deal with than Dale. Send him an E-Mail or letter.
Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Join a local chapter and try to find someone with your year car - attend a judging event as an observer judge - take pictures and ask a lot of questions. Most folks are more than happy to share information - and we all love to tell about the "mistakes" we made along the way.Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Martin,
If you want I'll be glad to loan you my 65 Burroughs book, it is new still has the clear plastic wrap sealed around it.
Let me know.
Jm BlakelyComment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Just my two cents:
I just finished up a body off restoration of my '65 L78 (396) car. The answers to your questions may be with the components of your own car. When I took my car apart, I bagged and marked all of the components and hardware. Get a good wire wheel and clean up your own bolts. It's very labor intensive, but it's a really good way to get to know your car down to the tiniest details. Photograph your bolts, washers, lock washers in component groupings (e.g. Lower A-arm attachment hardware). After the parts are cleaned and measured, throw them in separate boxes for plating (Cad/zinc box; black phosphate box). Take them to the platers and you have your correct bolts with proper plating. Be sure to read your JG since somewhere along the way, someone may have replaced original hardware, so you can check and see if the head bolts on your car are identified in the JG.
The bottom line is really this: if you want to get to know your car, spend a few hours at the wire wheel. After your bolts are cleaned, look them over. Catalog them with measurements. It makes it alot easier during the re-assembly process.
Hope this helps.
Good luck.
TonyRegion VII Director (serving members in Arkansas, Kansas, Louisiana, Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas).
Original member of the Kansas City Chapter, est'd 07/11/1982.
Member: 1965 and 1966 National Judging Teams
Judging Chairman--Kansas City Chapter.
Co-Editor of the 1965 TIM and JG, 6th and 7th editions.
Comment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Jack et al,
I am curious......do they judge and score at all based on their opinion?
I found your statement to be interesting in that one would hope that they judge more on fact. I realize that the hobby is still evolving and that is why JM's are periodically updated, but again, I would hope that actual judging would be more on fact (even if derived from a colaboration of opinions and determined to be so) than a single one person opinion.
DavidComment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
David
I don't know if "fact" is the right word. As you can gather from previous postings little is known of the facts as they occured at each position on the actual assembly line. Most experienced judges bring knowledge colored by opinion to the process of judging your car. Get out as frequently as you can and work along side them. You'll be able to identify those whose Knowledge is based more on experience that guesswork. There may be no better place to get critical answers than when a car from your year of interest is presented for Bowtie judging. Some of the most knowledgeable judges in the hobby will be called on to make an informed decision about the authenticity of these cars. Have fun.
JimComment
-
Re: 65 Restoration
Jim,
I recently joined the local Carolina's chapter and will be attending my very first Nuts and Bolts on June 7th with some real good, and very knowledgeable folks.....I am excited about finally just meeting some more in person, but also with the potential of learning so much more.
I'm charging the battery for my camera as we speak....
DavidComment
Comment