Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

[Patrick T.]

A friend of mine who I haven't seen or heard from in a couple years told me back then the '67 frame does NOT have a date written upside down on the frame. The car has a National Top Flite and a Bloominton Gold awards. On the '66 and earlier productions there was a date on the side rail as shown in the picture below. Can anyone confirm for sure that the '67's did not have a date scrawled on the frame rail? Thanks, PT

[Bill W.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Patrick, Don't know about '67's, but my #23514 '66 that I ordered does not have a date hand written on the frame. There is a date included in the stenciled part number at the back of the frame, but nothing else except shim markes on the right side. Bill

[Stephen L.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

If you look closely at the stenciled number in the frame photo there is no date incorporated in the stencil, thus a date was written on the frame.

In 1967 and possibly after (I'm no expert on this except for my own 67 Frame) the date was included in the frame part number, thus it was not necessary to handwrite a date on the frame.

This gets back to the "frame pull date" discussions. IMHO the "Frame Pull Date" was NOT a date that the frame was "pulled" but rather the date the frame was manufactured, just like nearly everything else made by vendors with a manufacture date stamped on it.

Why would GM care when the frame was "pulled" when all the other vendors placed a date on their product when they made it? GM didn't put a "used on" date on anything else. Even engines were stamped on the manufactured date, not the date they were installed on the frame.

[Kirk M.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

So, what is the short answer here? Did 67's have a hand-written date on the pass side frame rail or not? Yes or No.

Next, what is the accepted answer to that same question according to the NCRS judging guides? ie: it's nice to have the opinion (right or wrong) but will I get dinked if my frame doesn't have a date?

Kirk

[Patrick T.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

So, what is the short answer here? Did 67's have a hand-written date on the pass side frame rail or not? Yes or No.

Next, what is the accepted answer to that same question according to the NCRS judging guides? ie: it's nice to have the opinion (right or wrong) but will I get dinked if my frame doesn't have a date?

Kirk

Kirk, ditto on your question, as I have never seen the answer published anywhere. PT

[Michael H.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

This gets back to the "frame pull date" discussions. IMHO the "Frame Pull Date" was NOT a date that the frame was "pulled" but rather the date the frame was manufactured, just like nearly everything else made by vendors with a manufacture date stamped on it.

Why would GM care when the frame was "pulled" when all the other vendors placed a date on their product when they made it? GM didn't put a "used on" date on anything else. Even engines were stamped on the manufactured date, not the date they were installed on the frame.

The hand written frame date was put on all C2 frames until some point in mid 66 production right at the St Louis plant, just before the frame was pulled from the "short stack" inside the building. That's why it's possible to see a frame date and body trim tag date that matches.

For later 66, and for the next several years, the part number stencil included the date. That would have been put on at the frame source, not the St Louis plant so it would be at minimum one and possibly several days before the body date.

At some point during C3 production, the St Louis plant began to use the hand written date again for a short time but I don't remember when. The stencil also had the date from Smith.

[Henry S.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

The hand written frame date was put on all C2 frames until some point in mid 66 production right at the St Louis plant, just before the frame was pulled from the "short stack" inside the building. That's why it's possible to see a frame date and body trim tag date that matches.

For later 66, and for the next several years, the part number stencil included the date. That would have been put on at the frame source, not the St Louis plant so it would be at minimum one and possibly several days before the body date.

At some point during C3 production, the St Louis plant began to use the hand written date again for a short time but I don't remember when. The stencil also had the date from Smith.

Sooooo......... no 67 had a hand written date on the frame?? And if it does it's wrong?? Damn.....why is this is hard.

[John H.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

So, what is the short answer here? Did 67's have a hand-written date on the pass side frame rail or not? Yes or No.

Next, what is the accepted answer to that same question according to the NCRS judging guides? ie: it's nice to have the opinion (right or wrong) but will I get dinked if my frame doesn't have a date?

Kirk

Kirk -

Your answer is in the '67 JG, under "Frame" in the Chassis section (no "pull date" is noted for 67's).

I spent my entire career in assembly plants (including St. Louis-Corvette), and I have no idea why St. Louis put the "pull date" on '63-'66 frames; somebody (internal or external) told them to, so they did. Who that was or why, we'll probably never know - there was no logical reason to do so.

[Kirk M.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Kirk -

Your answer is in the '67 JG, under "Frame" in the Chassis section (no "pull date" is noted for 67's).

I spent my entire career in assembly plants (including St. Louis-Corvette), and I have no idea why St. Louis put the "pull date" on '63-'66 frames; somebody (internal or external) told them to, so they did. Who that was or why, we'll probably never know - there was no logical reason to do so.

John,

I don't doubt you for a minute, but my 4th Edition says nothing like that

"The frame is painted semi-gloss black. Both the Dow Smith number, 303196, and the GM number, 900200, appear upside down and toward the rear on the right frame rail. A date is also stenciled beside these numbers. Several variations of this stencil have been observed. The following is one example:"

That is it. Is there a newer addition? This is the 67 NCRS Tech Info Manual and Tech Guide. Am I missing it somewhere?

Dang, I just dated mine a couple weeks back based on Quanta spec sheet. Guess I need to remove it!

[Patrick T.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Kirk -

Your answer is in the '67 JG, under "Frame" in the Chassis section (no "pull date" is noted for 67's).

I spent my entire career in assembly plants (including St. Louis-Corvette), and I have no idea why St. Louis put the "pull date" on '63-'66 frames; somebody (internal or external) told them to, so they did. Who that was or why, we'll probably never know - there was no logical reason to do so.

Thanks John, I had looked in the '67 Judging Manual for this item but had no idea what a "no pull date" was. PT

[John H.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

John,

I don't doubt you for a minute, but my 4th Edition says nothing like that

"The frame is painted semi-gloss black. Both the Dow Smith number, 303196, and the GM number, 900200, appear upside down and toward the rear on the right frame rail. A date is also stenciled beside these numbers. Several variations of this stencil have been observed. The following is one example:"

That is it. Is there a newer addition? This is the 67 NCRS Tech Info Manual and Tech Guide. Am I missing it somewhere?

Dang, I just dated mine a couple weeks back based on Quanta spec sheet. Guess I need to remove it!

Kirk -

The "date" noted in your (current) 4th Edition refers to the date that's part of the stencil, which is on all 67's. The "pull date" being discussed was hand-scrawled with a grease pencil or lumber crayon, separate from the A.O. Smith stencil, and was not applied to '67 frames.

[Kirk M.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Kirk -

The "date" noted in your (current) 4th Edition refers to the date that's part of the stencil, which is on all 67's. The "pull date" being discussed was hand-scrawled with a grease pencil or lumber crayon, separate from the A.O. Smith stencil, and was not applied to '67 frames.

I understand, I'm talking about removing the hand-written paint stick date that I so expertly stood on my head to incorrectly apply to my 67 frame. Unfortunately, the literature from Quanta does NOT make an exception notation about the hand-written date for 67's, so I proceeded to apply it thinking I was doing good. No problem, it will wipe off with thinner. As always, thanks for the direct and clear answer John!

Kirk

[Mike M.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Hello Patrick.
Since the Chassis Judging Sheets, Section 11, states "Frame & Numbers"
Judges typically look for the A. O. Smith Stenciled numbers.
I do not and have not heard of Judges deducting for the absence of the handwritten "Pull Date".
HaND

[Patrick T.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Hello Patrick.
Since the Chassis Judging Sheets, Section 11, states "Frame & Numbers"
Judges typically look for the A. O. Smith Stenciled numbers.
I do not and have not heard of Judges deducting for the absence of the handwritten "Pull Date".
HaND

Mike, I have a late St. Louis built '67. A couple years ago I took off the date and it will stay off. Thanks, PT

P.S. I will give your post to the Chassis Judge when the big day comes for my car to get judged!

[Mike M.]

Re: Did '67 frame rails have a date written on them?

Hello Patrick.
Be careful what you wish for, that judge could be me.
HaND