P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Bill------


Sorting this one out will be difficult. However, I'll offer a few bits of information:

1) The pump support seen on your pump looks to be generally correct. There were several of these supports used over the years and all are fairly similar;

2) The bracket seen on the back of the pump is not correct. It looks like a big block bracket;

3) The power steering pump pulley shown in your photograph, GM #3860457, is not correct for your application. This pulley is a passenger car pulley, not Corvette. GM says your application should use a GM #3868892. The latter is a RARE pulley. That may be why someone substituted the 3860457;

4) GM says that your waterpump pulley should be a GM #3848904. From what I can see, this looks like what you have, but I can't be sure based on what I can see of it. The number should be stamped on it, though;

5) As far as the balancer pulley goes, I'm not sure. However, I THINK what was used was a GM #3858533 rear 2 groove pulley in combination with a GM #3827843 1 groove front pulley. The 3827843 is a RARE pulley. The 3858533 rear pulley should be stamped with that number or with 3766987. I don't know if the 3827843 is stamped with that number, or not.

Let us know what numbers are on your pullies when you get them off and cleaned up.

Hello Joe I finnaly got my pulleys off and they seem to match what you and mark are saying. I am enclosing pictures in my reply to Mark please check them out. The single pulley on the crank doesn't match the numbers listed but it does fit the 533 well and is a deep groove pulley. I belive after all this I need the correct 892 steel p/s pulley and I will be good to go. Thanks for all your help. By the way the C/S pullys were held on with very short e head indented bolts with internal star washers I thought this was interesting and makes me think that these are probably original pulleys. To sumarize the numbers: W/P 3848904, CS 2 grrove 3858533 and C/S 1 groove 346290ABGM. Also is this 5 blade fan correct? it sems that I recal some AC cars came with 5 blade fans? Thanks for all your help,
Bill

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

W/P pulleys,



I believe the L79 used the same pulley configurations as the L76 365hp engine; with the exception of P/S.

Mark

Hello Mark,
Thanks for the drawings I am assuming the flat pulley is the 3868892? DO you have a drawing of the 509 for comparison? I think that the 892 is what I really need to make everything work. The PS pully I have would work if I was using non deep groove pulleys. Please see my reply above to Joe for the part numbers I discovered. The numbers on the single groove CS pully (346290ABGM) don't match what you listed but it seems to fit the 533 pulley well and is a deep groove pulley. Here are pictures of what I removed. Thanks again for all the great help!!! As Usual You a Joe and everyone else have been really great. You all are what makes this the finest automotive orginization!
Bill

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Thanks That would Really be Great!
Let me know.
Bill

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Hello Mark,
I think my ECl is AG52 or A652 is this the number on the trim tag? I am sorry I don't have Noland's book yet. I guess I really need to get one.
Thanks
Bill

[Joe R.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Hello Mark,
Thanks for the drawings I am assuming the flat pulley is the 3868892? DO you have a drawing of the 509 for comparison? I think that the 892 is what I really need to make everything work. The PS pully I have would work if I was using non deep groove pulleys. Please see my reply above to Joe for the part numbers I discovered. The numbers on the single groove CS pully (346290ABGM) don't match what you listed but it seems to fit the 533 pulley well and is a deep groove pulley. Here are pictures of what I removed. Thanks again for all the great help!!! As Usual You a Joe and everyone else have been really great. You all are what makes this the finest automotive orginization!
Bill

Hi Bill:

If your crank stackup of the 533 and the 346290 fits together properly and gives you an effective triple deep-groove crank pulley, you can probably just run with that.

Be sure to double-check the fitment, because I think the 346290 may not have been properly seated in the 533 in the photo you attached to your original posting. On the inside of the 533 there are two holes with raised ridges around their perimeter. Those ridges are intended to fit inside two holes in the add-on pulley. When properly seated, the outside bottom surface of the add-on pulley sits flush with the inside bottom surface of the 533.

For your PS pump pulley, I think the alignment will be pretty good if you use the Pontaic 9786900 pump pulley. That is a deep-groove pulley that sits farther forward than the typical Chevy standard-groove pump pulleys such as the 509.

The 9786900 is being reproduced and regularly appears on ebay. Originals also show up regularly. In fact, there is an auction for a NOS 9786900 ending today.

I have samples of both the original 9786900 and the reproduction (they differ slightly). I can send you one or both to try out the alignment.

[Joe L.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Hello Joe I finnaly got my pulleys off and they seem to match what you and mark are saying. I am enclosing pictures in my reply to Mark please check them out. The single pulley on the crank doesn't match the numbers listed but it does fit the 533 well and is a deep groove pulley. I belive after all this I need the correct 892 steel p/s pulley and I will be good to go. Thanks for all your help. By the way the C/S pullys were held on with very short e head indented bolts with internal star washers I thought this was interesting and makes me think that these are probably original pulleys. To sumarize the numbers: W/P 3848904, CS 2 grrove 3858533 and C/S 1 groove 346290ABGM. Also is this 5 blade fan correct? it sems that I recal some AC cars came with 5 blade fans? Thanks for all your help,
Bill

Bill------



The GM #346290 pulley is not an original pulley used for your application. In fact, this pulley didn't even exist until about 1974. It was used for 1975-82 Corvettes with P/S. It never even replaced the pulley originally used for your application for SERVICE. Someone just decided on their own to use it.

Some 63-64 and 66-67 Corvettes with C-60 did use a 5 blade fan. However, I believe that all 1965 Corvettes with C-60 used a 7 blade fan. I suppose it's possible that a 5 blade fan was used assuming it's the right 5 blade fan.

[William H.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Just a quick note to clarify the add on CS pulley 346290 I have is NOT Deep groove. Just noticed this As I was starting to clean up to strip and paint.
Just wanted to let everyone know
Bill

[Scott S.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Bill------

The GM #346290 pulley is not an original pulley used for your application. In fact, this pulley didn't even exist until about 1974. It was used for 1975-82 Corvettes with P/S. It never even replaced the pulley originally used for your application for SERVICE. Someone just decided on their own to use it.

Hi Joe,

A guy who worked with my Dad at Delco-Moraine (brakes division) and also raced a 1965 Corvette for 20+ years explained to me about the GM 346290AB add-on pulley. He said they needed power steering when they flared the fenders to use wider wheels and racing tires (front and back). They needed the second groove on the 3858533 crankshaft pulley for a second (captive) water-pump belt in case the primary water pump belt broke during a race, and needed an add-on pulley that would work for the power steering under race conditions. One of the drivers (or mechanics, often the same person back then) figured out that the '75-'82 GM 346290AB power steering add-on pulley would fit in the old 3858533 crankshaft pulley, and it didn't take long before the secret was found out by all the other racers (who then did the same thing).

That's how it was explained to me. I checked the fit of the GM 346290AB power steering add-on pulley with my GM 3858533 crankshaft pulley and when you line the holes up correctly, it fits like they were made for each other.

[Scott S.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

For your PS pump pulley, I think the alignment will be pretty good if you use the Pontaic 9786900 pump pulley. That is a deep-groove pulley that sits farther forward than the typical Chevy standard-groove pump pulleys such as the 509.

The 9786900 is being reproduced and regularly appears on ebay. Originals also show up regularly. In fact, there is an auction for a NOS 9786900 ending today.

I have samples of both the original 9786900 and the reproduction (they differ slightly). I can send you one or both to try out the alignment.

Hi Joe,

Last March I was checking the Store-N-Lock for the ignition top-shield (discovered recently in the garage attic) and some other parts. These parts had been in the Store-N-Lock since about 1993 or so. I also found an old power steering set-up.

I think the pitman arm is correct for midyear and C3 power steering (3741383 B GMT 169) and I think the steering box itself (and the relay rod) is from a '69 Corvette. The power steering pump is a little different from what I think is correct for a midyear, and the cradle bracket appears different too.

But I remembered there was some writing on the PS-pump pulley, and I thought it said "Pontiac" which didn't make any sense. The only Pontiac I can think of that my Dad had was his first new car, a 1968 GTO, but it was totaled in a wreck a year or two later. I just checked the power steering parts again, and in yellow paint on the PS pump-pulley it says "PONT 68 - 1973". I checked the part number (see third picture), and it's 9786900 XD

Seems like my Dad was thinking about adding power steering to his '67 Corvette, trying to figure out this same problem a long time ago, and he arrived at the same conclusion you did

The power steering add-on pulley (I think that's what it is) that was in the box with the relay rod and other parts is GM 3751232. Might that work for a crankshaft add-on pulley, or does it go to something else?

[Scott S.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

I just checked the GM 3751232 add-on pulley, it's in Mark's 1965 & 1967 pulley charts (didn't check the '66 chart yet) as a crankshaft add-on pulley for a number of applications with the 3850838 crankshaft pulley (and once with 3755820 crankshaft pulley, base engine).

[Joe R.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Just a quick note to clarify the add on CS pulley 346290 I have is NOT Deep groove. Just noticed this As I was starting to clean up to strip and paint.
Just wanted to let everyone know
Bill

Hi Bill:

I just got home and went out to the garage to look at some pulleys I have collected during my quest for a deep-groove setup for my 67 that has both A/C and PS.

It turns out that I have a 346290 add-on pulley in my collection and, as you have noted, it is a standard-groove pulley. However, it fits beautifully inside the 533. I also have a 14023153 that is virtually identical to the 346290.

I have two deep-groove add-on pulleys that fit into the 533. One is a 3765947, and the other is a 3916385. These two pulleys are also virtually identical.

With any of these pulleys, the the PS pump pulley centerline needs to move farther forward than where the 3770509 sits. The required incremental distance is less when using the standard-groove add-on pulley.

I have a 3860457 standard-groove pump pulley that sits about .130" inch farther forward than the 509. I don't know what application originally used this pulley, but Joe Lucia will probably be able to tell us.

I also have a Pontiac 9786900 deep groove PS pump pulley that sits about .200" farther forward than the 509. On my engine, this pulley lined up nicely with the deep-groove crank add-ons 3765947 and 3916385.

It is very tight getting the deep-groove PS pump pulley to fit, so you would probably be better off keeping the standard-groove 346290 add-on pulley that you already have, and locating a suitable standard-groove PS pump pulley such as the 3860457. It's likely that the PS pump pulley originally used with the 346290 will work fine.

There is probably no technical reason to use deep-groove pulleys for the power steering. The power steering belt is very short, and it is engages for 180 degrees with each pulley. It is very unlikely to come off at high rpm, even if the pulleys are standard-groove. Deep-groove pulleys are more important for the longer belts used for the alternator and A/C.

[James W.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Ok Thanks
Still waiting for someone with an original car to let me know what they have. All this info from the parts books and AIM's is great but I would like to know what really came on someones car.
Thanks
Bill

Hello Bill,

I have an original '65 327/350 with ps and a/c. What do want to know and what pictures can I take for you? The picures I sent to show the third pulley for the ps pumps also shows belt mis-alignment which was corrcted by moving the waterpump pulley hub back towards the engine. I can take more pictures for you, just tell me what you want to see.

Let me know.

Best regards,

James West
Omaha, NE.

[Joe R.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Hello Bill,

I have an original '65 327/350 with ps and a/c. What do want to know and what pictures can I take for you? The picures I sent to show the third pulley for the ps pumps also shows belt mis-alignment which was corrcted by moving the waterpump pulley hub back towards the engine. I can take more pictures for you, just tell me what you want to see.

Hi James:

It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like part of your alignment problem was due to to a mis-matched pulley set. The dual WP pulley looks like a deep-groove (possibly 3848904), while the dual crank pulley looks like a standard-groove (possibly 3850838). The add-on PS pulley should be flush with the dual crank pulley, so there is a mis-match there as well.

[James W.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

Hi James:

It's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like part of your alignment problem was due to to a mis-matched pulley set. The dual WP pulley looks like a deep-groove (possibly 3848904), while the dual crank pulley looks like a standard-groove (possibly 3850838). The add-on PS pulley should be flush with the dual crank pulley, so there is a mis-match there as well.

Joe,

This car has been in the family since the early 70's, never been apart before we ownd it. All equipment and pulleys are what the General installed back in July of 1965.

James West

[Timothy B.]

Re: P.S.Questions 65 350hp w A/C

James,

If Joe is correct then the 533 crankshaft pulley will correct this alignment on this engine. According to this post, the add on P/S (crankshaft) pulley needs to be checked so it sits properly into the 533 pulley..